Psychic Powers and Force Weapons

By player596486, in Deathwatch Rules Questions

I thought I remember reading somewhere that you couldn't both use a (non attack) psychic power and activating the focus power test when attacking with his force weapon.

For example He couldn't cast Telepathy and then hit with his Force Weapon and focus power to enhance the damage.

Also what about taking multiple Focus Power Tests per turn. (Only one being an attack)

You can't take the same action twice in the same round, so a Focus Power Test is a one-use-only thing, per round, regardless of what you use that Focus Power Test for. Anything else would be house rules I'm afraid.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

You can't take the same action twice in the same round, so a Focus Power Test is a one-use-only thing, per round, regardless of what you use that Focus Power Test for. Anything else would be house rules I'm afraid.

BYE

Isn't it the same "Half Action" that the restriction applies to?

However I think Psychic Powers in the latest errata are restricted in that you can't use a psychic power with a "target" in the same turn you use an "attack" action.

H.B.M.C. said:

You can't take the same action twice in the same round, so a Focus Power Test is a one-use-only thing, per round, regardless of what you use that Focus Power Test for. Anything else would be house rules I'm afraid.

This is something our group has addressed and never totally resolved, but the actual rule on page 236 is that a character can't take two of the same Half Action in their turn, not that they can't make two of the same test in a round. Thus it's a little uncertain how this works with Focus Power tests that are only a Free Action, such as Telepathy, and powers activated with Reactions, such as Iron Arm (a Reaction doesn't even technically happen in your turn; it can only happen during an opponent's turn.)

You still can't cast two "targeted" powers in one turn (this was errata'd) but it's not really clear if you can use a force sword (a Free Action) after activating a power like Veil of Time (a Half Action) or if using either means that you can't later use a power like Iron Arm (a Reaction).

I haven't really reached a conclusion either way; on the one hand, it seems reasonable to let people use Reaction or Free Action powers in the same turn as other powers, or else they'd always forgo using them in preference for the force sword or a heavy-hitting power like Smite. And it does seem like this is what the rule on page 236 is saying. On the other hand, it seems to be the developer's consistent intention that you never ever ever get to use two psychic powers in one turn, ever.

Bastard of Melbourne said:

H.B.M.C. said:

You can't take the same action twice in the same round, so a Focus Power Test is a one-use-only thing, per round, regardless of what you use that Focus Power Test for. Anything else would be house rules I'm afraid.

This is something our group has addressed and never totally resolved, but the actual rule on page 236 is that a character can't take two of the same Half Action in their turn, not that they can't make two of the same test in a round. Thus it's a little uncertain how this works with Focus Power tests that are only a Free Action, such as Telepathy, and powers activated with Reactions, such as Iron Arm (a Reaction doesn't even technically happen in your turn; it can only happen during an opponent's turn.)

You still can't cast two "targeted" powers in one turn (this was errata'd) but it's not really clear if you can use a force sword (a Free Action) after activating a power like Veil of Time (a Half Action) or if using either means that you can't later use a power like Iron Arm (a Reaction).

I haven't really reached a conclusion either way; on the one hand, it seems reasonable to let people use Reaction or Free Action powers in the same turn as other powers, or else they'd always forgo using them in preference for the force sword or a heavy-hitting power like Smite. And it does seem like this is what the rule on page 236 is saying. On the other hand, it seems to be the developer's consistent intention that you never ever ever get to use two psychic powers in one turn, ever.

To use a Psychic Power that you aren't sustaining or to channel extra damage into a Force weapon requires a Focus Power action. You're limited to one of those a turn by the "no two identical actions a round" rule, regardless of how long it takes you to activate. If you use a Force weapon and channel willpower, you can't then activate Iron Arm when the enemy attacks you back later that round. If Iron Arm was already activated and sustained that round by using a Half Action, then you could use the Force weapon channel and still use Iron Arm to defend later.

Brand said:

To use a Psychic Power that you aren't sustaining or to channel extra damage into a Force weapon requires a Focus Power action. You're limited to one of those a turn by the "no two identical actions a round" rule, regardless of how long it takes you to activate. If you use a Force weapon and channel willpower, you can't then activate Iron Arm when the enemy attacks you back later that round. If Iron Arm was already activated and sustained that round by using a Half Action, then you could use the Force weapon channel and still use Iron Arm to defend later.

The problem our group has run into is that there is no such thing as a "no two identical actions in a round" rule. The rule is no two identical Half Actions in a player's turn .

I really need to make the distinction clear because we originally misread it and it caused this whole problem for us later on: an Action is not the same thing as a Half Action, and a Round is not the same thing as a Turn. So there's a big difference between "no two identical actions a round" and "no two identical Half Actions a turn." The difference is that the latter seems to let you use Focus Power tests with the Free Action or Reaction type when you've already used a Half Action to activate a power, because a) they're not Half Actions and b) Reactions don't occur during a player's turn.

The problem is that the developers seem to have consistently implied that you can't cast two psychic powers in a Round without actually saying "you cannot cast two psychic powers in a Round" and, in fact, have said the opposite by limiting the identical action rule to Half Actions done during a player's turn. So although it seemed really clear that the identical action rule on page 236 doesn't apply to Reactions or Free Actions, our group was unable to decide whether to use it like that in-game.

Like I said, it has an appeal to it because otherwise players would "save" their Focus Power test for their force weapon or to cast Smite, because combat is often over before you can get powers like Iron Arm or Veil of Time up and running. Consequently, those powers would be basically useless unless you gave the psyker several turns to "buff." On the other hand, multiple Focus Power tests in a round has never seemed to be something the developers are comfortable with, and it raises an important question as to whether you can use something like Lightning Attack and then activate the force sword ability multiple times (it's a Free Action, and there's no limit on performing identical Free Actions.)

Add to that the half action sustains, makes Iron Arm a very poor substitute for Wall of Steel, considering the Librarian can have fairly fierce melee swings.

I'm playing in a game as a Blood Angel Librarian with the advanced speciality Deathwatch Champion, I've used the Champion to augment the Librarian's effective but limited list of melee talents.

I've looked at powers like Might of the Ancients or Might of Heroes, and using them in combat seems like the intention of the powers, but as you need a half sustain action it limits you to only half actions on your turn.

Neat if you're using something like Force Dome or Barrier and Smite, but for melee it restricts you to a single attack, which many melee oriented or agile opponents will have little to no difficulty in avoiding.

However I guess when you get access to Preternatural Speed they'll become pretty pro.

On topic tho, if you limited the Focus Power test = same as half action attack and/or full attacks, then you're pretty much causing unneeded confusion for yourself.
The new errata makes it clear that if a power targets an opponent or does damage to an opponent it cannot be used in the same turn as an attack action, and gives a helpful list of such actions.

So no smite + bolter fire, m'key?

I'm not sure whether the Force Weapon killing power test counts a power, I think RAW it probably could be read to mean "No using killing power in the same turn as an attack action" which limits it to Counter Attacks and free attacks on disengaging enemies, but I think the RAI is that it is not considered a use of a power.

I think the RAI is that it is a power, just that it is triggered by an attack action.

It's just that you can't do Smite + the killing force in the same turn, to me.

We used to have exactly the same issue wihtin my group for my Templar in DH and the GM would allow it as a free action triggered by the attack as long as no other offensive powers had been used that round.

I always reasoned that the psyker was subconciously putting the force of his mind behind his arm when he struck the blow and this was picked up by the psycho-reactive crystals within the force weapon and transmitted into the target when it was struck. When his mind is concentrating on striking the foe via another means he is unable to put the same foce of mind behind the blow and as such it cannot haver the same effect.

I'll use it in this manner in my DW campaign until such time as the Psyker proves it to be totally broken.