RT: Righteous Fury

By kjakan, in Rogue Trader House Rules

It seems to me that the Righteous Fury variant in RT is a bit over-the-top. WH and DH just adds a single open-ended 1d10, but RT allows you to make an additional damage roll (same number of dice and bonuses).

You guys that have been playing RT for a while, how is this working out for you?

-K

kjakan said:

WH and DH just adds a single open-ended 1d10

Uhm, you do know that you can roll consecutive Righteous Furies in DH right? Meaning that if you roll another 10 on the additional d10 you'll get to roll ANOTHER d10 and so on until you stop rolling 10's.

It's the same thing in Rogue Trader, but they have just ruled it that all the bonuses and penalties "to hit" are used in the calculation for the second additional to hit roll, rather than always using a characters raw WS or BS, which doesn't seem very over the top at all in my opinion, but rather quite logical.

That's not the difference being discussed, though.

Rogue Trader adds the weapon's full damage again when Righteous Fury triggers, and it allows for additional damage rolls with every 10 rolled. Dark Heresy allows an additional d10 each time a 0 is rolled. The only difference between the two is the amount of extra damage dealt...

Comparing DH to RT, the difference can become extremely significant: With a Lasgun, that's an extra 3 damage per 10 rolled (1d10+3 instead of 1d10). With a Lascannon, that's an extra 4d10+10 damage per 10 rolled (5d10+10 instead of 1d10).

Varnias Tybalt said:

kjakan said:

Uhm, you do know that you can roll consecutive Righteous Furies in DH right? Meaning that if you roll another 10 on the additional d10 you'll get to roll ANOTHER d10 and so on until you stop rolling 10's.

Same as in WFRP and DH yes.

How to run weapons with multiple dice was never really made clear- Tearing makes sense but guns like multimeltas have such a huge chance of righteous furying- RT is not meant to be a dice pool game but it feels like one when your using one of those. I do also think adding the weapon's full damage instead of just an extra dice roll is a mistake...

My mistake then.

But in all honesty, I think our group would have played with the DH variant of Righteous Fury if we weren't made aware of this fact since we're so used to the post errata Dark Heresy rules by now.

This is how I perceive the system to work:

  • Toughness Bonus is defeated with Strength
  • Armour is defeated by Armour Penetration
  • Wounds are defeated by the Damage roll
  • Criticals are scored with Righteous Fury

Lets assume a TB 3 character with 3 AP, 1 point of Armour and 10 wounds. He is subject to to a SB 3 attack with armour penetration 1 and a damage roll of 10. The character takes critical damage equal to the Righteous Fury roll.

Obviously you can change those numbers around, but I think it's a fair baseline for the damage caused by a single hit against a significant character (PC or otherwise).

Obviously, Righteous Fury becomes a lot more dangerous if the target has suffered some wounds already, but adding the damage modifiers to the roll really makes for an accidentally lethal game!

I think I prefer the WH and DH way of things. Also, I base the RF confirmation test on the characters WS or BS, counting no modifers).

-K

Agree. The damage generated from Righteous Fury from a Tearing weapon (chain sword or bolt pistol) is ridiculously high. A single, unaimed shot from a bolt pistol generates WAY too much damage. It gets even worse with a Heavy Flamer because there is no 'to hit' roll so RF is automatic. My simple House Rule was the DH method - only reroll 10's.

I agree and I think you need to go even a step further, if you roll on a 5d10 1,4,10,10,5 I think the RF should allow you to roll 1 extra 1d10 not 2

Any opinions on that?

wolph42 said:

I agree and I think you need to go even a step further, if you roll on a 5d10 1,4,10,10,5 I think the RF should allow you to roll 1 extra 1d10 not 2

Any opinions on that?

Thats how i'd like to run it. But in this case I can see people arguing for every 10 to qualify, and players get funny about it.

The compromise I have is that any 10 qualifies for the extra d10- but without the extra base damage- so just a flat d10.

My argument for keeping RF the same way would be to simulate just how truly deadly one solid and lucky attack could be (IRL one gunshot is enough to put paid to most people's butt). And I'd remind players that the enemies can also get RF. It'd keep them nervous in any kind of fight, knowing that all it takes is one lucky (or unlucky) roll to drop them like a sack of dirt.

My argument against keeping the RF the same way would be that it can make encounters intended to be difficult or at least harrowing incredibly quick and easy based on a lucky roll. Many GM's agonize over coming up with fights that aren't too easy or too incredibly difficult so when their 'perfect' encounter turns into a blood-bath (either way) it tends to take away from the sense of accomplishment for players.

I hate fence sitting... sad.gif

I thought making weapons with the "holy" rule use all tens rolled, and weapons without have to choose one dice that could invoke RF. happy.gif

Praise the Omnissiah!

We use a different system with RF: multiple dice weapon only reroll the dice that has scored a 10. For example: a lascannon dealing 4d10+10 damage. When rolling for damage the score is: 5+7+10+10 so the player allowed to reroll 2d10 for extra damage.

Frankly do you really need RF with weapons like Lascannon or Multi-melta?

I also have a question: in DH the rules state that only PCs benefit from RF, but in RT it is not stated. Does NPCs and opponents benefit from righteous fury?

Yeah, the rule that righteous fury invokes another full weapon damage was rejected as soon as we noticed. It's obviously broken for tearing and multi dice weapons.

However, one could compromise a bit from the normal DH righteous fury. For example, one could imagine adding the static damage and pen of the weapon and another d10 for RF instead of just another d10. It seems to me that weapons like plasma pistols need to benefit more from a really lucky shot than an autopistol.

Graspar said:

Yeah, the rule that righteous fury invokes another full weapon damage was rejected as soon as we noticed. It's obviously broken for tearing and multi dice weapons.

However, one could compromise a bit from the normal DH righteous fury. For example, one could imagine adding the static damage and pen of the weapon and another d10 for RF instead of just another d10. It seems to me that weapons like plasma pistols need to benefit more from a really lucky shot than an autopistol.

Well this makes sense, but my other question still remains unaswered.

Ah, I suppose that if RTs core rules does not say that NPCs work out damage differently then yes by RAW they would get RF. That's pretty much a non issue for me however, the only damage I don't use RF on is falling damage and other enviromental hazards.