More "example" Ki arts?

By player641485, in Anima: Beyond Fantasy RPG

I'm looking into making a Technician next time round in Anima, but we have a bit of an issue with Ki dominion.

The pick-and-mix nature of the ki powers does unfortunately have a capacity for unbalancing the game. Yes, I know, any character can easily be killed, yadda yadda ya, but I don't think that's a good alternative to a more balanced system.

The example arts shown in the book, such as Celeste, however, look more like it. An ideal way to play Ki techniques in my mind would be to tie the learning of techniques into pre-made arts like them, with self-created arts being available only to true Ki masters (perhaps only Zen characters?)

The question is: are there more player-created or published (in Spanish) arts that I could import into our game? The alternative is that I have to make 'em myself, not play a technician, or force the GM to micro-manage the Ki powers himself which he'd rather not do.

Well one thing you could do is Just try and keep your powers balanced. Dont dilibretly get an unbalanced tecnique or dont make something that would brake the game or make your fellow players fee gimped or un important. balance is as much the plyes responibilty as the GM's. Next ask our Gm to just look t any power that gets made and review it. Game mastering takes work and te GM needs to look at eeryting the players have or make (in any game, including anima) and make sure he can acount for i and still provide a chalalge for that pearson without killin of oth characters.

Last but not least would be to make our own lists. I t just go the core book havnt run a game of it yet so I dont know what other resources are out there but you should be able to solvethe problem wich just alittle bit of coperation.

Sorry to be blunt, but you didnt read the KI powers very in-depth if you think they can be unbalanced that easily. KI must be accumilated per round, and if you are interupted in concentraion you lose all accumliated KI. If you are fighting while accumliateing KI you only accumilate it at half the rate. This means that your charecter is either not fighting for several rounds while you accumilate KI, or your fighting very poorly for an even longer period of time while your KI accumliates.

This only applies of course if you create a technique so incredibly powerful that you would even NEED to accumlate for more than 2 rounds. What you need to understand is that ANIMAs powers range from things that are capable by mortals, all the way to the power of a god. I would argue that if KI is over powered, so is the power of the Cyrokniesis Psyonic, "Absolute Zero" which INSTANTLY destroys objects, and creatues that fail there physical resistance check.

The essence of the point based system is "Value". What asepcts appeal to you? If you want to create a very powerful KI technique that requires 6 Agi, 6 Dex and 6 Strength, that increase damage, gives you a huge iniutive bouns and a huge attack bouns, sure you can create that no problem. however is it a sustained techniuqe? then your not only burning KI with the initual cost, but then your also spending ki per round. You will have to put A LOT of DP into getting your KI, accumliation up and your ki pool in general up to the point where you could execute such a power within a reasonable amount of time. and yes i know you can just walk around powered up all the time, however if you engage in anything other than that your going to lose that ki. What if your suprised? ambushed, if your ki technique takes 10 turns to power up, but allows you to take on 10 guys, and kill them all in 1 round (which i doubt) but even so, you will never get a chance to pull it off. even 1 bandit with suprise could kill a Techniquen with suprise, if that technietion is relying on KI so much.

You need a decent base attack, and base block or dodge. All of these things are from the same % pool. This means that your technition has to pick and chooce between balanced physical non-ki combat, and ki techniques. If you focus more on the non-KI aspect then your ki techniques will not be that powreful, but more augmentations of your fighting style. Or the other senerio is you poor more points into KI to create several super techniques that can change the battle field. If that is the cast you will have less raw phsysical talent and will be needing to spend more time with your powers just compensating for your lack of an attack bouns.

I dont see KI as being over powered int he least. I have made several KI NPCs for my players to fight, and my players have dabled in KI themselves. Yes I will acknoledge that KI powers can be incredibly powerful, giving charecters acess to trutly powerful feats, such as a level 1 char dealing 90 damage unarmed. Yes iv done it and so have my players. I also can see a weapon master ith 200+ LP, 5+ AT armor in all areas, and a 120 damage battle axe as an even match for that char. Both of which are possible from the get go, and both of which are powerful yes, but no unbalancing by any stretch of the imagination.

Sami K said:

The question is: are there more player-created or published (in Spanish) arts that I could import into our game? The alternative is that I have to make 'em myself, not play a technician, or force the GM to micro-manage the Ki powers himself which he'd rather not do.

I agree with Commanderq. This is the first time that I have heard this concern and my play experiences don't support it. Creating uber combos is balanced by the need to accumulate Ki and other factors that the PC must spend DP on.

Perhaps you could post a couple of examples of what you consider to be broken Ki Techniques.

Agreed. Post a set of ki techniques, showing what they do, and how much it costs in ki to use.

Let me gives this a try...

Arcane level technique, "Valkyrie"

POW 27

WIL 27

Area Attack 3 miles, Target Choice, MR 240 vs. death

Sure, insane costs, would take huge amounts of time to build up and launch, and if I'm not mistaken, require a successful attack roll, but even most end-level characters cannot hope to have a MR score as high as the 190 needed to reasonably resist this power, and with the ability to simply pick who dies within 3 miles of the effect, this power earns it's name well.

To say my point, though, I think any system can be broken, if done correctly. Every system has it's flaws, but that's what the GM is for. Sure, some systems, among them Anima, might not have very big holes to work through, but perhaps one should take a look at just how varied the powers of a summoner can become before they outright deny the abusability of Anima. Anima is abusable, but as the manifesto stated in the cover of one defunct game of yore said, these aren't problems with the game, they're problems with the players.

You would die long before you ever got such a costly technique off. And keep in mind if you take your mind of concentraing KI you lose all of it that has been accumliated. And if you defend yourself which you will most likely have to do while gaining ki that long, you only accumilate at half the rate. should you suffer a crit (which is possible) because youv spent so much dp on ki and not a lot on attack or defence, or LP for that matter. youll lose all your ki accumliated as well.

If a player in my game wanted to use that tequnie id laugh at them and say "go for it". sure it would be funny if you pulled it off, but i think a more practial charecter would be much more powerful.

Example: the counter attack build. Anima supports one of these most insaine passive aggressive fighter setups, if you can get people to attack you they are toast.

aravol said:

Sure, insane costs, would take huge amounts of time to build up and launch, and if I'm not mistaken, require a successful attack roll, but even most end-level characters cannot hope to have a MR score as high as the 190 needed to reasonably resist this power, and with the ability to simply pick who dies within 3 miles of the effect, this power earns it's name well.

As pointed out, that example is so extreme that it would never actually see any use in combat. The PC would likely be dead before they use it. As such, I don't see the problem. with the rules as written. Power is balanced by cost and time very effectively.

I recommend trying these examples out in play before changing the system based on such theoretical concerns.

Well in the above example. I satnd 1 mile outside a small village filled with about 3 to 4 hundred people use this power and wipe them ofthe map. save for one lone child to tell of the horror of the destruction of townsville. now sure I get hunted down and killed but i could also hide a way in the cave and gather the ki need to devote to the task and spend a ki every turn to hold it on standby. get an audiance ith the king of Bigtown and once within rangeof the castle everyone whos a threat dies and people are to scaredto attack me.

A clever power gamer can find a way to abuse anything. every systems expliotable. but if you just make a little effort youl never absue aything. if your playing just dont try to brake th sysem. yes occasionly youl stumble across something that realy does just happe to be a prblem or brake the system. if it's problem just thnk ofa reason to stop using it. maybe you acidentl kill an incconet with the technique and refuse to use it ever again or you loose your memory. If you GMing talk to your player andif tey wont listen tae the power away have some demon or god or something seal away the power or steal it frm him takeing away his abilty to use it. or dissaprove the power to begin with.

Luced said:

Well in the above example. I satnd 1 mile outside a small village filled with about 3 to 4 hundred people use this power and wipe them ofthe map. save for one lone child to tell of the horror of the destruction of townsville. now sure I get hunted down and killed but i could also hide a way in the cave and gather the ki need to devote to the task and spend a ki every turn to hold it on standby. get an audiance ith the king of Bigtown and once within rangeof the castle everyone whos a threat dies and people are to scaredto attack me.

A clever power gamer can find a way to abuse anything. every systems expliotable. but if you just make a little effort youl never absue aything. if your playing just dont try to brake th sysem. yes occasionly youl stumble across something that realy does just happe to be a prblem or brake the system. if it's problem just thnk ofa reason to stop using it. maybe you acidentl kill an incconet with the technique and refuse to use it ever again or you loose your memory. If you GMing talk to your player andif tey wont listen tae the power away have some demon or god or something seal away the power or steal it frm him takeing away his abilty to use it. or dissaprove the power to begin with.

In response to your views on that, restraining your powers like that incorrectly can piss of the other players, and even unluckly, your GM. The last campaign I did that, it didn't go so well, and thus not suggested for players new to RPing itself (though experienced RPers could handle it well). Though then again, it's anyone's opinion.

here are 2 example of ki techniques that are useful in combat, 1 is level 1 and the other is level 2. i made them myself

kep in mind hes a level 4 techinician with these stats and has 16 fatigue points

[#] shows accumulation

Str: 20 [3]
Dex: 30 [4]
Agi: 18 [3]
Con: 28 [4]
Pow: 30 [4]
Wil: 14 [1]

example 1

Phasmatis Purgo Lvl 1 (20 mk)
Supernatural Attack(primary) (+10 MK)
Area Attack (+15 MK) 30 ft
Target Choice (+10 MK)
Determined Condition (-15 MK) -3 Fatigue
Accumulation-Dex 5, Con 5, Pow 5, Wil 2

Description: Unleashing this deadly blast of energy is hard on the body due to the fact of transferring pure energy into something mystical, causing great fatigue in the user. When unleashed, by thrusting the sword into the ground Bright White tendril-like roots and thorns sprout from the ground spreading like a swarm of locust to whomever is deemed unworthy.

example 2


Levitas Telum Lvl 2 (50 MK)
Additional Attack(Primary) (+40 MK) +3 Attacks
Long Distance Attack (+20 MK) 150 ft range
Elemental Attack (+05 MK) Electrical
Attack Augmentation (+20 MK) +75 Attack Ability
Elemental Binding, single (-15 MK) Air
Predetermination (-20 MK)
Accumulation-Str 7, Agi 7, Dex 10, Con 10, Pow 10, Wil 3

Description: Little sphere-like sparks crackle as they speed through the air towards their target, emitted from the tip of the blade he wields. Lightning fast attack makes it nearly impossible to dodge and block, almost certainly rendering his target out of commission, if not dead.

so if you look at both examples, 1st one can be accumulated in 2 turns easily, even 1 if you spend a fatigue point to raise accumulation levels.

while the 2nd one might take more time, it is still quite doable within 3 rounds.

Good to see some replies in here. I gave up on checking on this thread after the first couple of days.

As a poster above said, sorry to be blunt, but you seem to have completely misunderstood the point of my OP. I don't care one bit about arguing whether or not the Ki Dominion part of the book is broken or not, and thus will not post any proof of my "claims" (it's been some time since I looked at them, and don't have the Anima book where I'm typing this). My post's point was to inquire about the existence of more Ki arts, and lo and behold, there is, in Spanish. Still, I am not sure whether it's going to be out this year.

As for the part about me not understanding how using & accumulating Ki works, you're frankly mistaken. Granted, I was mostly talking about a technician character sustaining multiple low level powers to give him combat bonuses (which is more powerful combat wise than it sounds), rather than trying to create "super duper deathbomb techniques".

oh, so you are talking about pre-made ki technique sets. as a matter of fact, there's a good amount of them at the end of Dominus Exxet.

there's Ormus, Hyousetsu Jigoku, Hypnos Requiem, The Rose of Blood(La Rose de Sang) and Arashido: the Path of Tempests, just to name a few. there are 11 more that i havent named. if you wish to know more about a specific set, just ask and ill translate as best i can if i cant find somewhere that is already done.

Aravol nailed it on the head, for me.

Generally, I find Ki Tecniques less powerful than other supernatural powers; the only 2 imbalanced things are Area attack and Chose Targets.

The areas in particular, are absurd.

I understand the game is supposed to reach godlike levels of power, but a 4th level tecnician built for the purpose can nuke cities from orbit.

Litterally. I'd prefere for such power to be obtained at higher levels.

Anyway, with the spiritual metamorphosys spell (not Chimera, the other one), a friend of mine reached level 7 in 2 sessions and is able to summon uberpowerful arcana in one round. Fortunately he abandoned the character since it wasn't even fun to play.

I myself built a warrior-mentalist that had some 250 initiative and acrobatics at first level and +4 to all stats. I discarded it since it wouldn't

have been very fun to play.

A well built first level Mentalist can DOMINATE whole cities, instead of nuking them from orbit. That's even more scary if ya ask me.

@Spirit_Crusher

I must address what aravol said at the end of his post. That is the fault of the players who like to "god mod" the game. It is possible to build a broken character in any game and any system, if you take time to research it. This is exactly why I left my first RP group. Everyone, save me and one friend, was a god mod power gamer.

They would abuse a system so bad, that they nearly were breaking teh rules, or milk a gm's game limits to nearly the breaking point. Anything that would be a challenge to a normal group was a joke to one of them. One in particular was so bad at it, he would break entire boss battles in one combat action. The one time I remember we were fighting a giant spider, he hit the pillars in the boss chamber and collapsed the roof, killing the boss instantly. Another time in D&D 3.5 he made a level 1 Paladin with an AC of 27, using no magical equipment what so ever. The character was useless to the party since he did very little damage and sucked at skill checks, failed saving throws left and right. But everytime that happened he'd ***** and whine about it. But to be fair it is also the gm's fault for letting a power gamer use such a character or tolerating such behavior.

Indeed. I actually get to GM a ""Power-Gamer""...I kinda Dread it. And I Expect that he will try to do some of the the above mentioned stuff, but I already have plans to thwart him in the simplest ways (Ways that he'd appreciate, considering that He has used them in his own D&D campaigns against the rest of the group). Aside from that, I can see the Arguments from both sides, But, I agree, a minor agreement between GM and Players would resolve the issue. If an Agreement can't be reached, maybe use some jerk-GM'ing. Ki concealment is Nice, but In the book it specifically states that at 20 or so points accumulated, It starts to take on a VISIBLE effect, meaning your character would be a Beacon.

If any of my players do try to kill an entire village they'd better be prepared to face things that would be drawn to large sources of power (Demons, Inquisitors, Metroids...) Kudos to the person who made Metroids as an Anima monster...

Also, I know it sounds Kinda harsh, but unless they God-Mod, I don't take Actions against Player-Decision making.

Raybras said:

kep in mind hes a level 4 techinician with these stats and has 16 fatigue points

[#] shows accumulation

Str: 20 [3]
Dex: 30 [4]
Agi: 18 [3]
Con: 28 [4]
Pow: 30 [4]
Wil: 14 [1]

Okay, I am assuming those are not your real characteristics. That you used DP to increase the amount of Ki you have for a given stat and its accumulation. If I am wrong and those are your actual characteristics... how the heck did you get them that high at level 4? oO

sorry for being off topic I just gotta know.

Raybras, i'd love to get the rest of em if you'd be so kind, i already have a few but i have a lot of ki players in my group so more the merrier.

any way to private message? i haven't found it yet but i did just start this forum today.