Rules Question: Fireball Vs. Heroes

By SirVolkar, in Battlelore

So how does this one work? sorpresa.gif

Against a Champion, firstly can it target them, i.e. are they a unit (I'm guessing yes to this)? If it can, I'm guessing Swords on Shield force a Casualty Check (despite the text of the card), but what about rolls of Lore? Do these insta-kill the Hero, i.e. over-ride the Casualty Check? preocupado.gif

Against a Leader, similar query. Does the roll of a Lore wipe out both unit and Leader, sans Casualty Check? Does it simply kill the unit and thus force the Casualty Check?

Your thoughts...? happy.gif

sirvolkar said:

So how does this one work? sorpresa.gif

Against a Champion, firstly can it target them, i.e. are they a unit (I'm guessing yes to this)? If it can, I'm guessing Swords on Shield force a Casualty Check (despite the text of the card), but what about rolls of Lore? Do these insta-kill the Hero, i.e. over-ride the Casualty Check? preocupado.gif

Against a Leader, similar query. Does the roll of a Lore wipe out both unit and Leader, sans Casualty Check? Does it simply kill the unit and thus force the Casualty Check?

Your thoughts...? happy.gif

I don't have the Fireball card in front of me, but it probably works the same against creatures, even against the Troll. If you roll the symbol that kills the unit, the unit is destroyed - plain and simple. I asked the Troll vs Fireball question and that is what Richard replied back. So I'm gathering the same with Heroes.

Cab

Fireball

Target 1 enemy unit.

Roll 1d/level +2d against target. Any Lore rolled kills the entire unit.

Otherwise, the target’s banner color scores hits as normal. Flags, bonus strikes and other banner colors have no effect.

A Fireball that targets a Hero acting as a Champion (Hero occupies a hex with no other unit) if any Lore is rolled, the Hero is wounded and removed from the battlefield and placed on the opponent’s Victory Track.

Of course if your Hero is a Rogue and has Leech as a skill, the Rogue before the Fireball Lore effect takes place, can take one Lore rolled as a Lore token and place it in your Lore Goblet. In this case, two-Lore would have to be rolled against a Rogue with Leech to wound the Rogue. A Rogue is sneaky that way gui%C3%B1o.gif

A Champion does not have a banner color therefore the second part of the Fireball card does not affect the Champion.

A Fireball that targets a unit with a Hero acting as a Leader, will only force a Hero casualty check if the unit is eliminated. Reason for the check is that a Leader must take a casualty check when the banner bearer of the troop he is leading is eliminated (third column, page 5).

The second part of the Fireball card does not affect a Leader.

Enjoy!

Richard Borg

Thanks both gran_risa.gif

Probably should put this info in the FAQ thread near the top since it bound to come up!

Richard Borg said:

A Champion does not have a banner color therefore the second part of the Fireball card does not affect the Champion.

Richard Borg

If that is the case, does that mean that a regular archer unit (non longbow or crossbow) has no possible chance of hitting a Champion with archery?

oshfarms said:

Richard Borg said:

A Champion does not have a banner color therefore the second part of the Fireball card does not affect the Champion.

Richard Borg

If that is the case, does that mean that a regular archer unit (non longbow or crossbow) has no possible chance of hitting a Champion with archery?

No, because I'm sure the rules specifically state that SoS from ranged weapons count against Heroes despite the Weapon card's rulings. Don't have the page ref on hand, sorry.

I think with battle savvy it states that a ranged unit may hit on SoS in melee combat vs. champions. I don't think it says anything about ranged attacks.

But I don't have the rules in front on me either happy.gif

From the very start of the design process, a Hero was a complex character to define in the BattleLore game. We had to answer a lot of questions about how a Hero would and could be wounded. We knew that some units could not score a hit when a Sword on Shield was rolled, but most of the alternative methods that were tested during our playtesting had greater drawbacks…

So the solution we recommend and the one that should be enforced at all times when deploying Heroes to the battlefield is as follows: Range weapon troops and other units that do not normally score a hit when a Sword on Shield is rolled in melee, will still force a casualty check against a Champion when one or more Sword on Shield symbols are rolled in the melee.

Richard Borg

oshfarms said:

If that is the case, does that mean that a regular archer unit (non longbow or crossbow) has no possible chance of hitting a Champion with archery?

The answer for this question should be YES, the regular archer unit (non longbow or crossbow) has no possible chance of hitting a Champion with ranged attack (if no lore or special cards are used).

The key phrase for this rule is "rolled in the melee" in the following quote that Richard extracted from the rules. And this is true to any unit that does not hit a SoS in ranged attack. The rule that Richard mentioned only affects the units that don't hit SoS in melee (whether that unit has a ranged weapon attacking in melee (point blank) or just a short weaponed unit attacking in melee, i.e. Troll).

Hopefully Richard confirms this clarification.

Richard Borg said:


Range weapon troops and other units that do not normally score a hit when a Sword on Shield is rolled in melee, will still force a casualty check against a Champion when one or more Sword on Shield symbols are rolled in the melee.

Finally I just want to send my great thanks to Richard for monitoring this Forum. It is really rewarding to know that the creator of such a great game is giving such great support. Really rewarding and encouraging.

Thanks Richard.

Regards,

Fadi

I realize this is an old topic, but one that I still have a hard time grasping (not in understanding the rules mind you, but in grasping the fact that its the best alternative). Since I am not a game designer and have definitely played Battlelore a lot less than Mr. Borg, I am probably missing something here. What would be the drawback of having a rule for ranged combat vs. a Champion that reads something like this. . .

When attacking a Champion, treat the SoS as the Champion's banner. Any SoS rolled will force a casualty check.

I play mostly Goblins (sometimes entire Goblin Armies) while one of my friends plays Humans and the other Dwarves. Maybe it just stinks to be me, but if I field an all Goblin army, I can't ever hit my opponent's champion with archery.

Also, the concept that an entire unit of shortbows have absolutely NO chance of wounding an enemy champion seems mighty unrealistic. (I know, I know, it really is just a board/war game) gui%C3%B1o.gif

oshfarms said:

I realize this is an old topic, but one that I still have a hard time grasping (not in understanding the rules mind you, but in grasping the fact that its the best alternative). Since I am not a game designer and have definitely played Battlelore a lot less than Mr. Borg, I am probably missing something here. What would be the drawback of having a rule for ranged combat vs. a Champion that reads something like this. . .

When attacking a Champion, treat the SoS as the Champion's banner. Any SoS rolled will force a casualty check.

I play mostly Goblins (sometimes entire Goblin Armies) while one of my friends plays Humans and the other Dwarves. Maybe it just stinks to be me, but if I field an all Goblin army, I can't ever hit my opponent's champion with archery.

Also, the concept that an entire unit of shortbows have absolutely NO chance of wounding an enemy champion seems mighty unrealistic. (I know, I know, it really is just a board/war game) gui%C3%B1o.gif

Hmm, looks like you got the Battle Savvy rules wrong. SoS results from ranged units can kill a Hero.

No, I'm sorry. Standard archers cannot kill a Champion on a SoS because they don't normally hit with SoS. Only Longbows and Crossbows can hit a Champion with SoS since they normally hit on SoS. Battle Savvy will allow a standard archer unit to hit on SoS in Melee ONLY. At least from what I recall.

oshfarms said:

No, I'