Wondering what these are

By FFTARoxorz05, in Arkham Horror Second Edition

So I recorded my Halloween game last night, and other than being amazed at how many people don't get deputy and somehow lose the experiment rumor, I saw these rules at the bottom of the page:

"[1] Added KW's clue-per-seal limit
[2] Added Kevin Wilson's anti-clue-shotgunning rule"

I couldn't find anything about them since I don't have expansions or FAQs or any of that, what exactly are they?

FFTARoxorz05 said:

So I recorded my Halloween game last night, and other than being amazed at how many people don't get deputy and somehow lose the experiment rumor, I saw these rules at the bottom of the page:

"[1] Added KW's clue-per-seal limit
[2] Added Kevin Wilson's anti-clue-shotgunning rule"

I couldn't find anything about them since I don't have expansions or FAQs or any of that, what exactly are they?

1)You can't use more clues in a round of final battle combat than the number of seals on the board

2)I'm not entirely sure, I presume it prevents you from getting double damage on sixes for bonus dice used with a shotgun.

Sorry, yes, 1 and 2 are the same. I'll try to figure out how to take those duplicate comments out.

I can't help but think how many ancient one balancing headaches would have been avoided if clue usage and shotgun 6s were outright banned in final battle.

GrooveChamp said:

I can't help but think how many ancient one balancing headaches would have been avoided if clue usage and shotgun 6s were outright banned in final battle.

Banning clue usage altogether is something I'm not OK with. Most of the base game AOs have attacks that are skill checks. Saving clues to help out when you really, really need to pass the defensive check is one of the fun elements of final combat. That's why I think the limit rule is a good one. And since a lot of people take issue with the Shotgun (and Azure Flame) ancillary ability, maybe something will be done about that too.

GrooveChamp said:

I can't help but think how many ancient one balancing headaches would have been avoided if clue usage and shotgun 6s were outright banned in final battle.

That might be a bit "tossing the baby out with the bathwater". "Clue-Shotgunning" is still a somewhat rare phenomenon. You need a Fight Skill (or Joe) and a whole mess of Clues. (Mandy is optional, but if I recall correctly, it was the whole Joe-Fight-Shotgun-Clues-Mandy combo against Yig that coined the term in the first place.) If one happens to have those things when the Ancient One roars, by all means, use them. If one spent the game searching and gathering those things...then I don't like how they play. If one enters Final Combat with more than 12 Clues...I'd like to know how they pulled that off, but I'm pretty sure I won't like how they did it. If that kind of "massive Clue haul" happens a lot...then I really don't like how they play (or else something is really being played wrong somewhere). But all this is "personal preference", and such problems are not the game's fault.

(And Shotgun 6s should totally be used in Final Battle...just not against Shub-Niggurath, Eihort, Rhan-Tegoth, Chaugnar Faugn, or Quachil Uttaus.)

So those rules were bascially made for people playing the game completely wrong just to break the end game fight? Seems like FFG shouldn't care about those people since they completely miss the point of the game.

jgt7771 said:

If one enters Final Combat with more than 12 Clues...I'd like to know how they pulled that off, but I'm pretty sure I won't like how they did it. If that kind of "massive Clue haul" happens a lot...then I really don't like how they play (or else something is really being played wrong somewhere).

I've done that. But, umm, it was Patrice and I was 1 Mythos away from sealing Zhar. Stupid Mythos, taking away win demonio.gif !

FFTARoxorz05 said:

So those rules were bascially made for people playing the game completely wrong just to break the end game fight? Seems like FFG shouldn't care about those people since they completely miss the point of the game.

Well... There's still annoying co-players... Best to make their behavior illegal ;')

FFTARoxorz05 said:

So those rules were bascially made for people playing the game completely wrong just to break the end game fight? Seems like FFG shouldn't care about those people since they completely miss the point of the game.

I see final combats as a valid win, if and only if it was ensured that final combat is a last resort. With this rule of Kevin's, you are penalized for ignoring seals and gearing up early, and that's something I like. Also, anything to make final combat more suspenseful is better by me.

Avi_dreader said:

FFTARoxorz05 said:

So those rules were bascially made for people playing the game completely wrong just to break the end game fight? Seems like FFG shouldn't care about those people since they completely miss the point of the game.

Well... There's still annoying co-players... Best to make their behavior illegal ;')

Well maybe its me (and this applies to all board games as well as dnd), but I don't play these games just to play them. I play em with friends to have something fun to do. I could care less about playing with random people much less those that might break the game as you described, and usually everyone here actively avoids interaction with those types to begin with. Of course I don't mind busting out a game with people I just met, but actively searching for players just to get a game in isn't my style at all.

FFTARoxorz05 said:

Avi_dreader said:

FFTARoxorz05 said:

So those rules were bascially made for people playing the game completely wrong just to break the end game fight? Seems like FFG shouldn't care about those people since they completely miss the point of the game.

Well... There's still annoying co-players... Best to make their behavior illegal ;')

Well maybe its me (and this applies to all board games as well as dnd), but I don't play these games just to play them. I play em with friends to have something fun to do. I could care less about playing with random people much less those that might break the game as you described, and usually everyone here actively avoids interaction with those types to begin with. Of course I don't mind busting out a game with people I just met, but actively searching for players just to get a game in isn't my style at all.

You probably know more gamers than I do :')

jgt7771 said:

GrooveChamp said:

If one enters Final Combat with more than 12 Clues...I'd like to know how they pulled that off, but I'm pretty sure I won't like how they did it.

Reading one or two copies of the King in Yellow (or even more, using 'Ashcan' Pete's ability to recover read copies) and using one of the several ways that allow trading clues will get you even farther.

I rarely try to go for final combat. Recently I prepared for it as a backup plan against Atlach-Nacha (gaining about eight allies) because I couldn't figure out another way to beat him (for the second half of the game I had five seals on board almost all of the time to no avail).

I've also had a surprisingly high number of games recently where final combat started while I still carried around two or three elder signs! Sometimes, the game just seems to foil all of your attempts at beating the AO in any other way.

And then there are AOs which simply seem to invite Final Combat. They're just way easier to beat in Final Combat than by any other means. So, to me, they're designed that way to encourage you planning to enter Final Combat from the beginning.

Clues, I'm not saying anything, because we sometimes used Hypnos and that's the best way to make yourself tons of clues. (can make the game easy, or very hard, depending on the AO, like ybb stll). I personnaly even had thirteen.

But for the elder signs... you say you had three ?! ****, that was an amazing coincidence, I'd say ! Thanks to the 6 expansions, the unique items deck is the biggest of all invest cards ! So to to find an elder sign, even as an exhibit parchment, is so rare ! Last time, we had one elder sign, and then the guy, no, it was Zoey, but anyway, she died against a nyogtha tendrill..... with our one and only elder sign !!! aaarg !

Hem said:

Clues, I'm not saying anything, because we sometimes used Hypnos and that's the best way to make yourself tons of clues. (can make the game easy, or very hard, depending on the AO, like ybb stll). I personnaly even had thirteen.

But for the elder signs... you say you had three ?! ****, that was an amazing coincidence, I'd say ! Thanks to the 6 expansions, the unique items deck is the biggest of all invest cards ! So to to find an elder sign, even as an exhibit parchment, is so rare ! Last time, we had one elder sign, and then the guy, no, it was Zoey, but anyway, she died against a nyogtha tendrill..... with our one and only elder sign !!! aaarg !

Hypnos ::laughter:: I've sometimes been tempted to use him (never have used him, or any of the Guardians), particularly in games with newbies, but then I always think, "but we'll have twice as many cards to read, and we'll have a much better chance of winning" (I love winning, but at the same time I feel like losing at Arkham should be one's first gaming experience to get an authentic feel for the game's brutalities).

Hem said:

But for the elder signs... you say you had three ?! ****, that was an amazing coincidence, I'd say ! Thanks to the 6 expansions, the unique items deck is the biggest of all invest cards !

Well, currently, I'm only playing with the Kingsport + King in Yellow expansion. When I newly received Kingsport Horror it was the only expansion I used. Going through half the deck hasn't been that unusual in my games.

Generally, I don't use more than one or two expansions at a time. Only when a scenario specifically calls for a greater number will I add more than two.

Another thing that I've seen a lot during the last month were gate bursts. I don't remember having seen so many of them when playing with Dunwich.