New Article: Chaos On The Rise, Part 1

By Tagrineth, in UFS General Discussion

Good article overall, just one kinda-nitpick...

"Spinning Demon: This card has proven to be meta defining. This card syncs up with Merciless Fighter and Mishima Family Bloodline really well. This card is also fuel for any future cards that require combo (kick, kick). Best part of all it is a low attack that deals 4 damage. "

The copy doesn't get Kick. You can't combo a Kick requirement off the copy.

I liked this article, it truly opened my eyes to chaos.

Good work Darklogos, this has inspired me to build a chaos deck in the forseeable future.

Cheers

Daniel

Tagrineth said:

Good article overall, just one kinda-nitpick...

"Spinning Demon: This card has proven to be meta defining. This card syncs up with Merciless Fighter and Mishima Family Bloodline really well. This card is also fuel for any future cards that require combo (kick, kick). Best part of all it is a low attack that deals 4 damage. "

The copy doesn't get Kick. You can't combo a Kick requirement off the copy.

Yeah I know about the multiple thing. Part of that was an oversight on my part. The other thing I thought about was Always in motion so you could (kick, kick).

Before it comes down the pipe I will say this. Yes I know Demon Slayer negates 1 enhance and Devil Gene stops all enhances for the attack. The way I see it the cost is still to high for devil gene. Devil Gene is a balanced card. But the most it can do is make your kill card go off without it being jacked with. Without Killer Android to protect assets it is going to be targeted or sacrificed to hold on to better cards in the staging area. If Devil Gene was a foundation and not an asset then I would say play 4 in your deck and don't stop playing it.

Thanks again Vik for posting the article. There is a lot more fun ahead so stay tuned.

Great article, man! I've recently been tinkering with Chaos myself, and you're definitely spot on about the potential of this symbol. I've built Jin Kazama off of Fire, Death/Fire, and Chaos, and even Chaos with a splash of Death, and i have to say...i keep going back to a pure Chaos build for him, and with many of the cards you cited in your article.

Chaos has a ton of synergy right now, and i really l like how the symbol encourages players to run Character Cards. It's a mechanic that's been gone too long from this Meta, and i'm glad they're bringing it back.

Rock on, man! Can't wait for part deux!

Good article. Nice to see some well thought out evaluation. It will be interesting to hear your take on some of the foundations out there. I feel that, like fire, there are about 3-4 different ways you can break down the foundations of Chaos. It will be fun to see where you rank certain cards.

Thanks for the article!

"The Devil Within: Killing them softly with their stun. Killing them softly with their stun."

Stfu

Also, darklogos, didn't I already tell you to stop thinking intelligently, creatively, and making a name for yourself in the community?

In all cereals, great article, and not gonna lie, mad props for mentioning character abuse and checking 6s. To quote James Hata, "Seriously Scott, you don't know what the Hell you're talking about."

I respect Scott Gaines a lot for still promoting legacy as a viable event. He has seen a lot of the game I will never see. I see the character card 6 check as something that people don't look for because of how little character cards have been used in the past. With my friends they put 4 copies of the character in the deck no matter what. So yeah I've had to think of games where people are playing Astrid, Zi Mei, Ragnar, and Tira with character cards in the deck. And man it sucks when you get blocked by +0 mid on your super fast attack and then they turn over another character card to get +6 on their check. Yes I've had that happen to me. When I told my friends what Scott said replied "What game is he playing?" This shows that a newer players view on the game is a lot different then a person who has been in the meta for a long time. When I got pissed and left there were 2 things from our interaction that stuck in my mind. The first was being hungry like the wolf and trying to make the decks more and more cold blooded. The second was puzzle element of card games ruling UFS. This is something that echos in the back of my head when I review and when I make decks to a degree. But I've put in my head "To bait the wolf you first have to look weak. Let them see your fangs as they fade into the afterlife." The meta is not just cards but mindsets. If the meta tells you something is weak the tendency is to relax a bit or get over confident in your deck. Only a few people are cautious of a potentially weak looking target. My hope is to widen the meta a bit and make people risk. I use the tier ladders as a bases for testing and experimenting. I use the top tiers as models to deconstruct and destroy. To an extent it has lead me to some hybrid decks ideas. I have a Kilik deck in the making that makes King scared and Hilde a little more cautious. But its in beta. Right now my biggest problem is Knightmare lol. I don't want people taking what I say as the secret meta or the new meta. I want people to second guess major trends and really look at the overlooked cards. I wasn't lying to Dut when I said there are still some hidden nuggets in the meta.

darklogos said:

I wasn't lying to Dut when I said there are still some hidden nuggets in the meta.

Nice article logos. I haven't for a second stated there aren't hidden nuggets in the meta. But it all depends on what you consider the meta... There are a lot of viable strategies and decks that haven't been posted on the forums. That doesn't mean that if/when I/you/anybody comes up with something original that it truly is original. You'd be surprised how often you think of something and someone far across the continent/pond thinks up the same thing and in isolation from you.

The point that there are other viable strategies that haven't seen the spotlight. 100% agree with.

- dut

Good article sir. Good to see some others represent chaos. Although I would have to disagree with the bit about chaos not having alot of stun like fire. Fire may have it on more cards but the ones with strong stun ratings also have chaos:wheel kick, evil mist, first rite, the shadow rises, two deadly rings technique, and lastly poison touch. Which is only 2 less than fire has. Although if you were to make the argument that fire has better stun cards I would have to give it to you there cause lets face it, shadow rises and poison touch are prolly not seeing a whole lot of play.

My issue with stun in Chaos was not that it could stun but man most of the cards played better off of the other symbols. Wheel Kick is prime example. Fire makes that card so much better. Chaos doesn't add anything to wheel kick in my opinon that fire does not. I run Wheel Kick in my Omar deck. But its just a normal tech card. It doesn't serve a special purpose in chaos. I'm not against tech cards or staple cards. My focus is what benifits and stands out in the symbol and works well with the symbol. Some days I wish Best friends had chaos.

darklogos said:

My issue with stun in Chaos was not that it could stun but man most of the cards played better off of the other symbols. Wheel Kick is prime example. Fire makes that card so much better. Chaos doesn't add anything to wheel kick in my opinon that fire does not. I run Wheel Kick in my Omar deck. But its just a normal tech card. It doesn't serve a special purpose in chaos. I'm not against tech cards or staple cards. My focus is what benifits and stands out in the symbol and works well with the symbol. Some days I wish Best friends had chaos.

Chaos might not add something to the attack with stun that also shares Fire, but what if you want to run a Chaos character (one that doesn't have fire on it?). Or, what if you want to follow up your stuns with attacks that don't share Fire? The prime example is Heiachi, i.e. Chaos Heiachi, who is commonly run with FortheMoney and stun attacks.

Also my Heiachi uses Shadow Rises for stun and ranged attacks as follow up... What!?! It has a good high block and helps me pass the Geodudes that follow.

- dut

darklogos said:

My issue with stun in Chaos was not that it could stun but man most of the cards played better off of the other symbols. Wheel Kick is prime example. Fire makes that card so much better. Chaos doesn't add anything to wheel kick in my opinon that fire does not. I run Wheel Kick in my Omar deck. But its just a normal tech card. It doesn't serve a special purpose in chaos. I'm not against tech cards or staple cards. My focus is what benifits and stands out in the symbol and works well with the symbol. Some days I wish Best friends had chaos.

Hey, um, Fire doesn't "add" anything to Wheel Kick either dood, it's just that Fire has a dickton of Stun attacks versus Chaos' 2 Stun-tastic attacks.

Chaos needs a way to be bowss, and well, Stun is that way. Stun, and of course, GIMME YO MONEY HOE!

darklogos said:

My issue with stun in Chaos was not that it could stun but man most of the cards played better off of the other symbols. Wheel Kick is prime example. Fire makes that card so much better. Chaos doesn't add anything to wheel kick in my opinon that fire does not. I run Wheel Kick in my Omar deck. But its just a normal tech card. It doesn't serve a special purpose in chaos. I'm not against tech cards or staple cards. My focus is what benifits and stands out in the symbol and works well with the symbol. Some days I wish Best friends had chaos.

VikramS said:

darklogos said:

My issue with stun in Chaos was not that it could stun but man most of the cards played better off of the other symbols. Wheel Kick is prime example. Fire makes that card so much better. Chaos doesn't add anything to wheel kick in my opinon that fire does not. I run Wheel Kick in my Omar deck. But its just a normal tech card. It doesn't serve a special purpose in chaos. I'm not against tech cards or staple cards. My focus is what benifits and stands out in the symbol and works well with the symbol. Some days I wish Best friends had chaos.

Actually I think Wheel Kick does serve a specific purpose, it's a Kick so it combos with Lion Slayer's Combo E. In certain decks that is really stupid free damage. That's what I use it for anyway.

More power to Lion Slayer the better lol.

While you happen to think Spinning Demon is one of Chaos' key cards, I happen to think Lion Slayer pretty much is too. Lion Slayer is an independent kill card at 4 difficulty. That's saying a LOT.

darklogos said:

My issue with stun in Chaos was not that it could stun but man most of the cards played better off of the other symbols. Wheel Kick is prime example. Fire makes that card so much better. Chaos doesn't add anything to wheel kick in my opinon that fire does not. I run Wheel Kick in my Omar deck. But its just a normal tech card. It doesn't serve a special purpose in chaos. I'm not against tech cards or staple cards. My focus is what benifits and stands out in the symbol and works well with the symbol. Some days I wish Best friends had chaos.

Go read Need to Destroy... I once popped three of them with a Wheel Kick for Stun 6... Or alternativly, Breaker 5 on Deadly Bling

I love getting name dropped and having my name spelt wrong, it's awesome :)

Keep bringing the hate. Characters do work in a few decks, but on the podcast I said people won't check sixes in general. I have a heihachi built that runs tons of characters and a few other decks that run some, but on average people check 5's. unless you are jin, then you cheat :) If i'm your motivation to get better then that's good.

MarcoPulleaux said:

In all cereals, great article, and not gonna lie, mad props for mentioning character abuse and checking 6s. To quote James Hata, "Seriously Scott, you don't know what the Hell you're talking about."

To quote everyone in the ufs community almost, you are garbage.

Chaos abuses characters, so yes that makes them the god tier of the game? yeah it makes one symbol good with them! ZOMG BBQSAUCE it's so LEET!! get the **** out of here.

characters have their place for right now, but after more sets come out, you can waste your slots on characters, i'll take my foundations that will spread your cheeks for russia.

hugs and kisses,

Scott

edit: and another thing, i see you posting elsewhere saying how kazuya hasn't done anything yet, well there has been one tournament that is considered a major since gencon, so yeah wow statistics really can make anything, any argument seem viable. I said kazuya would win a city championship and those are next year dood, so you might want to stop your gloating, b/c we can go back to the millions of times you have denied facts and looked like a complete dumb ass on the forums. your days as mr game and watch are loaded with them ^_^

steve talking **** to me was funny, and you guys think killer android is the end all be all to kazuya? wow you guys are dumb. so what do decks that cant run killer android do against him? even if you have killer android, your whole board can be stunned so easy. it's so funny to see people posting that think they know so much about ufs, but in reality suck. shinji at worlds, nats whatever, bring a deck to play against my kazuya. let's play for cards/money whatever and see what happens.

Scott Gaines said:

I love getting name dropped and having my name spelt wrong, it's awesome :)

Keep bringing the hate. Characters do work in a few decks, but on the podcast I said people won't check sixes in general. I have a heihachi built that runs tons of characters and a few other decks that run some, but on average people check 5's. unless you are jin, then you cheat :) If i'm your motivation to get better then that's good.

Sorry about spelling your name wrong. It was all in fun. I thought that the joke was well placed due to the podcast refference. I was wrong and I appologize for the statement. Character cards in general need to get more use. I will agree that foundations are awesome because they can check and do something in staging area. But foundations suck to discard for other abilities and 0+ mid block is becoming more and more useful. If you look at a majority of attacks they are mid attacks. A lot of strong staple attacks are mid attacks. Will Killer Android shut down Kazuya? No it wont. He can pack destruction in his wake and evil intentions. I will state I think that Killer Android being able to stop Kazuya is bunk. I don't think Hata designed the card to stop Kazuya. I think its a fluke.

I use a lot of sources for information. You are one of many sources I factor in my analysis. We all disagree on lots of stuff. I think that the play sphere can benifit from a lot more input from you in the way of deck building. I'm looking forward to hearing your next podcast soon.

Scott Gaines said:

edit: and another thing, i see you posting elsewhere saying how kazuya hasn't done anything yet, well there has been one tournament that is considered a major since gencon, so yeah wow statistics really can make anything, any argument seem viable. I said kazuya would win a city championship and those are next year dood, so you might want to stop your gloating, b/c we can go back to the millions of times you have denied facts and looked like a complete dumb ass on the forums. your days as mr game and watch are loaded with them ^_^

steve talking **** to me was funny, and you guys think killer android is the end all be all to kazuya? wow you guys are dumb. so what do decks that cant run killer android do against him? even if you have killer android, your whole board can be stunned so easy. it's so funny to see people posting that think they know so much about ufs, but in reality suck. shinji at worlds, nats whatever, bring a deck to play against my kazuya. let's play for cards/money whatever and see what happens.

As much as I wanted to quote the whole thing ^^ I thought I'd ring in on Kazuya. He is seeing more and more play by players to my knowledge, especially since he has the ability to control the number and relative strength of attacks thrown at him (by reseting staging areas).

There really aren't a lot of viable answers to his ability and I find Fire has the least of them, but there are some ways to combat him, including cheap and balanced attacks. Kazuya forces the meta to play a sliding scale sort of game. On one hand decks need to be able to accumulate and deal OTK, on the other (against Kazuya) decks are often forced to whittle away never reaching the board required to the OTK. This fact alone makes him a very interesting character.

- dut

Thing is most decks have a hard time reseting up against Kazuya after he wipes the staging area. Many times most decks don't recover hardly at all. The biggest time to hit is when there is 3-4 of a key card on the field. This makes it so that its going to be almost impossible for them to regain momentum. The only problem I see is that Kazuya has a problem reseting up himself. If he is behind in staging area game there are few options for him to get key elements back. The only character that laughs at his ability is Omar. Omar just picks his cards out of the staging area and tactically rebuilds.

darklogos said:

Thing is most decks have a hard time reseting up against Kazuya after he wipes the staging area. Many times most decks don't recover hardly at all. The biggest time to hit is when there is 3-4 of a key card on the field. This makes it so that its going to be almost impossible for them to regain momentum. The only problem I see is that Kazuya has a problem reseting up himself. If he is behind in staging area game there are few options for him to get key elements back. The only character that laughs at his ability is Omar. Omar just picks his cards out of the staging area and tactically rebuilds.

* Astrid also does well against Kazuya, granted she can throw BIG damage attacks with little and generic staging area. King also owns Kazuya, playing stuff for free goes against his advantage.This, imo, is the major reason why Kazuya is still in hiding, the King and Queen of UFS craze.

- dut

dutpotd said:

There really aren't a lot of viable answers to his ability and I find Fire has the least of them, but there are some ways to combat him, including cheap and balanced attacks. Kazuya forces the meta to play a sliding scale sort of game. On one hand decks need to be able to accumulate and deal OTK, on the other (against Kazuya) decks are often forced to whittle away never reaching the board required to the OTK. This fact alone makes him a very interesting character.

- dut

The only viable answer to Kazuya is to out-Kazuya Kazuya. And it can easily be done with Hunger for Souls and the like. With Evil, you can make sure that Kazuya never sees a foundation of the entire game. He better start hard-checking.

Homme Chapeau said:

dutpotd said:

There really aren't a lot of viable answers to his ability and I find Fire has the least of them, but there are some ways to combat him, including cheap and balanced attacks. Kazuya forces the meta to play a sliding scale sort of game. On one hand decks need to be able to accumulate and deal OTK, on the other (against Kazuya) decks are often forced to whittle away never reaching the board required to the OTK. This fact alone makes him a very interesting character.

- dut

The only viable answer to Kazuya is to out-Kazuya Kazuya. And it can easily be done with Hunger for Souls and the like. With Evil, you can make sure that Kazuya never sees a foundation of the entire game. He better start hard-checking.

hehe cheap and balanced attacks was my way of saying 'hard-checking'. ^^