Evil current role in UFS

By darklogos, in UFS General Discussion

I've spent the last few days trying to figure out how to make Evil and several other symbols viable. I'm finding it to be a bit rough. Evil, unlike order and water, doesn't just share space with one other symbol. Evil touches chaos and death quite frequently. I've found death to be hard hitting but lacking speed pumps and few other mechanics that are popular in the game right now. What are you feelings about the Evil symbol? Do you feel it has more potential then given credit for? Please eloberate on your position.

It's nowhere near as powerful as it once was that's for sure.

TBH I feel that it lies in the same boat as order/water in the current meta in that it shares symbols with better symbols overall, making it appear terrible due to a lack of cards.

I predict that Evil might, just, MIGHT become tier 4 after quest of souls. ;/

Cheers

Dan

The biggest problem that Evil has is that most (all?) of it's best cards have either Death or Chaos, or both. And frankly, Death and Chaos are far better because they have cards that Evil does not (like Cursed Blood for Death, For The Money for Chaos and Maniacal Laughter for both). Not to mention Fire, which basically can do anything Evil can do far better and also shares many cards but has stuff like Financial Troubles.

Honestly the biggest question is, which character is worth running off Evil? Anyone? Because really Bryan Fury and Nightmare and the like are just flat out better in another resource.

An argument can be made for Zhao being better off evil, because of one card Wonderworld Warriors.

That's the only Evil deck I've heard of in nufs, basically for the reasons mentioned above.

Zhao Daiyu to me is the only viable evil char, I won wandering Master at worlds with a evil zd(pre tekken). Her Combo is just so ridiculous and evil actually has some pretty good cards. IT just lacks spam foundations badly and any sort of card advantage(tho the wonderworld twins and Path of the Master can help a little).

When building a evil deck tho you REALLY need to loo kat your blocks because they have a ton of good cards that lack blocks which can complicate things in building. Most evil decks also have a lot of 4 control cards, which is good for hungry for battle, but something that needs to be considered during construction.

One of the reasons I started this thread was that I was looking at Evil Bryan Fury and then looking at my shipment of Titan Axe. When I look closely I see a lot of potential to get a lot of damage fast. Fire has 26 cards with 5 printed damage or over. Evil has 17 attacks with 5 damage or more. Bryan Fury could run off of fire rather easily. Then I started to notice a trend with evil. It ran into chaos now and then. The cards it overlapped with Chaos were some good cards. Note you don't see fire,evil, chaos cards. So Evil had the potential to reach into chaos pull out some tricks fire could not.

Titan Axe was a card I found when I was putting in a coolstuff order. I looked at it. I looked at it again. I asked myself why no one ever talked about the card. The next thing I wondered was why isn't it in most deck lists. Yes I went through about 6 pages of decklists and read every Bryan Fury/Evil/Ragnar/Astrid thread. No one played the card. What went through my head was lion slayer>midnight launcher>Titan Axe. Then what went through my head was lion slayer>shadow flare>titan axe. I thought the second string would appear in a lot of decks because it was very economical. But it didn't. Is the combo better then midnight launcher/knight breaker? Not really but its a hell of a lot cheaper and still hits hard. I guess no one noticed that Titan Axe and Night breaker had the same COMBO and the same COMBO E.

On the foundation front I saw Evil doing something better then fire. That is destroying foundations for crazy damage and control. Evil is the blow stuff up and pump 5 base damage attack symbol. Go through 2 headed dragon and look for yourself. Evil has access to both Fire's and Chaos destroy cards. A person could focus on foundation destruction, for a cheap price, and have a meta controling deck. As it stands right now constant foundation destruction hinders a lot of decks. Add in all life is prey for the hyperbeam finisher.

If Hiechei deck could attack with crazy damage attacks and not have a lot speed pumps and make it up the ranks then I think evil has a chance to do the same thing more consistently. The biggest weakness I see is no speed manipulation. Even then it doesn't need it as much because of the mass foundation destruction.

Wafflecopter said:

An argument can be made for Zhao being better off evil, because of one card Wonderworld Warriors.

That's the only Evil deck I've heard of in nufs, basically for the reasons mentioned above.

I totally agree with this. Evil has never been terrible in the history of UFS, it only looks bad now because of how great it's always been in the past. Between Zhao's removing from game abilities, Cervantes control check manipulation and Kazuya's/Nightmare's destruction it's not hurting that bad. I think Water is going to get better next set, but until then Water is far, far weaker than Evil. Evil has options, it's just not head and shoulders above the rest as it used to be.

Evil is a lot better than people are giving it credit for. For starters, it has Wonderworld Comics, one of the best cards in this format IMO. It gives Evil access to both draw and momentum generation its never had before, a big advantage over Death and Chaos which share no symbols with it.

Next, it support thread consists of Zhao Daiyu, Cervantes, Astaroth, Nightmare, and to some extent Kazuya Mishima.

3 Have Chaos, 3 have Death, sure. However, a pure Death deck couldn't touch Cervantes' support, a pure Chaos deck couldn't touch Nightmare's, and neither could touch Astaroth's.

Evil can pump damage with Hungry for Battle, No Longer Controllable, Enraged Golem (to an extent), All Life is Prey, and Merciless Fighter
Generate momentum with Treacherous Offspring and Wonderworld

As for "who to run", I still believe Bryan Fury is not just Evil's best character, but Evil is his best symbol.

Yes, I know, he has both Earth and Fire, I know. But, I feel he's a tad better than Astaroth for his instant ability to make Upper Claw and Lion Slayer kill switches. The fact that Upper Claw reaches Shadow Banishment's damage and Lion Slayer reaches Orbital Blazes is just stupid.

It has its advantages, just gotta look for 'em.

Well crap two headed dragon didn't have wonderworld comics up. I wish I knew about that card before I submitted something.

People in my meta have been using titanax every now and then.. most people stop using it tough because it has such low speed and midzone.

Sure Shadowflare makes it on tick harder to block but still..

Mordai said:

People in my meta have been using titanax every now and then.. most people stop using it tough because it has such low speed and midzone.

Sure Shadowflare makes it on tick harder to block but still..

How many of those decks focused on foundation destruction making it harder to block titan axe. That is the real issue. Titan Axe is 1 point slower so people will chase Knight Breaker. But at the same time since it has damage potential it ought to be considered.

Hm, don't remember if anyone played it in a destruction type of deck, But I do know they've played it of earth and to some extent fire.

With a close to empty staging area or commited I can see that this card could do some damage. Not saying it does not have damage potential, just that it is hard to push it through..

Oh heck.. now you gave me a challenge.. Need to make a bryan around this card just to see if it could work..

This is how my zhao deck worked...not with the titan ax but with all the destruction effects that i could find and twilight embrace the deck worked super well at getting rid of my opponents staging area but it lacked blocks and i would just end up eating damage on my opponents next turn even though they didnt have foundations

Astrid, Heihachi, and yi shan were the biggest offenders of this.....but i think it was the player behind the yi shan deck more than the deck itself

I'm talking with my friend about a Heichei that has 20 attacks and 40 character cards just for laughs.

Thing is that the control elements of evil is there. It just has to be focused on card destruction. Card destruction is how they pass stuff through. Now if the opposing player doesn't need a lot to pass checks then you are in trouble. Jin is one example of how being able to keep bumping your checks up can hurt evil.

Evil has iPresence and G-Corp Reader to abuse busting stuff up.

Also, heads-up, Knight Breaker > Titan Axe, every time.

I've read and re-read Titan Axe, and seriously, how can you pick it over Knight Breaker? Unless you're in a common and uncommon only (excluding chara) format, Knight Breaker has a broken block in this format, a free E, and a much better Combo E.

In order to reach, say, 9 damage on Titan Axe, you'd need to play a 5 difficulty high attack, versus Breaker where you could play that same 5 difficulty high attack and get 12 damage.

Also, it isn't that Titan Axe is slow that matters, it's that it's mid. There are so many +3 mid blocks in the game that it's hard to pass it through truly off any symbol.

In sort, don't run Titan Axe, not even in Earth. Knight Breaker is one of the most efficient cards in this game and will never, ever lose efficiency. It is the Tiamat's Rampage of our time.

Speaking of Knight Breaker, Chasing After t3h Power > Death and Fire tapping-out =p

How I can pick titan ax over Knightbreaker? well for starters it does not cost me a fortune to aquire a playset. Marco.. do not flush people's ideas down the toilet. Darklogos mentioned Titan ax as a budget verision of knightbreaker that people could maybe use. Knightbreaker is near impossible for some people to come by, Personally I think it is good that Darklogos is pointing out other cards that the meta is forgetting about.

Evil is a trash Symbol now..

YOU LIE!

qft

What I love best about Wonderworld Comics is its symbol spread. In the current block, it helps Air shine over Life, All over Void, and Evil over Death. It's very cheap draw and momentum generation, something any symbol would love to have.

MarcoPulleaux said:

What I love best about Wonderworld Comics is its symbol spread. In the current block, it helps Air shine over Life, All over Void, and Evil over Death. It's very cheap draw and momentum generation, something any symbol would love to have.

Except for the whole availability of the card, but hey who cares about that right?

EBay is a poor man's best friend

MarcoPulleaux said:

EBay is a poor man's best friend

Last I checked eBay sucked massive balls in terms of price. We're talking CSI levels of suckage.

Addendum : Just checked it out, yeah. Not even on the same level for that card.

I found it there for like, 5 bucks (+1 dollar or two for shipping).

MarcoPulleaux said:

I found it there for like, 5 bucks (+1 dollar or two for shipping).

15 bucks for mine, combined.

Yeah screw that noise.

eBay = **** you if you're not in the States.