Worlds alternative

By rulemonkey, in UFS General Discussion

Didnt really know where to put this and I would really like peoples feedback on the subject.

Since the economy is in the toilet and as a result less people can make the trip to Gen Con. I have a suggestion for the weekend of Worlds, UFS should run a special tournament with a smaller prize kit than worlds. So let me explain a little at worlds people were given at random any of these cards

Jin

Peaceful Way

Tablet of Gilgamesh

The Devil Within

Heir to the Storm

The Newcomers

Perfect Memory

So this tournament would have a participation card and a winner card. The tournament would be standard format.

Particiaption card - Peaceful Way

Winner card - Jin

Everyone gets a the participation card with their entry in to the tournament and the winner gets

3x of the participation card - Peaceful Way

4x of the winner card - Jin

Have the kit cost stores 20 dollars or something close. The entrance fee $5 and everyone should be able to get something they want. Stores will make money, Ufs can continue to grow with something new, and players that can not attend Worlds can spend $5 to be apart of the weekend.

Just a suggestion! Let me know what you guy think?

I doubt that if they held the tournament this year that they would do something like that for next year.

In summary you can't attend worlds but do want to find an equitable way to partake in any exclusive prize support.

A good idea maybe .

That said, find a way to attend worlds, the most fun you can have with the game is travel and actually playing against every one that plays face to face, worlds is that meeting ground and should be your target attendence this far in advance.

- dut

I like the idea, seeing as some of us have mortgages, car payments, or jobs that prevent all of us from making the trip. But I think the exclusive promos should be different for the two events.

dutpotd said:

That said, find a way to attend worlds, the most fun you can have with the game is travel and actually playing against every one that plays face to face, worlds is that meeting ground and should be your target attendence this far in advance.

You know that's impossible for some people. What I personally dislike is the whole lack of information that surrounds the event - "At Worlds, X said Y." is something you hear far too often when it should be "At Worlds, X said Y but it's also mentioned in the Z communique."

I get that Worlds is a celebration of UFS, but each and every year, all it is is a reminder that if you can't go to Worlds, screw you.

My thinking was a way to include everyone that plays the game into the celebration. Even those with finanical troubles, or just cant afford to miss the work. Instead of what happens now which is 95% of the people that play this game dont participate or even play the game that weekend.

Hey there... I'm not for or against this idea. However just to flesh it out more, I have some comments / questions.

  • World players already complain about how little they get for all of the money they shell out in going to this event. By making a kit where a player could get most of what they get from worlds for $2 or whatever, wouldn't this "devalue" the worlds experience even more?
  • The Promos given away at Gencon are previews of future prize support cards. IE Jin from September, or the Fight Life Promos. By making them exclusive to "Worlds Weekend Events" doesn't that further limit access to promos that people are complaining about being hard to get their hands on?
  • If 95% of the world isn't playing UFS on that weekend, is it because 95% of the Scouts are at Gencon? If that's the case, then who is going to run events on worlds weekend?
  • Are there any other games that hold a celebration tournament for all those who cannot attend the worlds tournaments they're holding at Gencon?
  • Player are already complaining about the $20 kit where you get Kiliks. Wouldn't something like this just make players complain more?

Antigoth said:

Hey there... I'm not for or against this idea. However just to flesh it out more, I have some comments / questions.

  • World players already complain about how little they get for all of the money they shell out in going to this event. By making a kit where a player could get most of what they get from worlds for $2 or whatever, wouldn't this "devalue" the worlds experience even more?
  • The Promos given away at Gencon are previews of future prize support cards . IE Jin from September, or the Fight Life Promos. By making them exclusive to "Worlds Weekend Events" doesn't that further limit access to promos that people are complaining about being hard to get their hands on?
  • If 95% of the world isn't playing UFS on that weekend, is it because 95% of the Scouts are at Gencon? If that's the case, then who is going to run events on worlds weekend?
  • Player are already complaining about the $20 kit where you get Kiliks. Wouldn't something like this just make players complain more?

Excellent points. I totally agree with all that i've quoted from above, and this is coming from someone who loves this game but has never been able to attend World's due to having to work and not being able to get the time off.

While I am against giving out meta-breakingly good exclusive cards to hard-to-attend tournaments; the fact that those cards are being made available at a later date awards attendees without permanently crippling those who could not make it. In my opinion. that is a fair deal for everyone.

ROTBI said:

While I am against giving out meta-breakingly good exclusive cards to hard-to-attend tournaments; the fact that those cards are being made available at a later date awards attendees without permanently crippling those who could not make it. In my opinion. that is a fair deal for everyone.

This is what's being done. However, the fact that :

a) We don't know when they will be coming out for those who weren't able to get preview copies.

b) The date of their legality is dubious at best and unknown to many at worst.

Means the system just ain't quite right yet.

Homme Chapeau said:

ROTBI said:

While I am against giving out meta-breakingly good exclusive cards to hard-to-attend tournaments; the fact that those cards are being made available at a later date awards attendees without permanently crippling those who could not make it. In my opinion. that is a fair deal for everyone.

This is what's being done. However, the fact that :

a) We don't know when they will be coming out for those who weren't able to get preview copies.

b) The date of their legality is dubious at best and unknown to many at worst.

Means the system just ain't quite right yet.

Cards Given out at Gencon aren't legal until they're regularly distributed in the prize support.

FFG has now been formally annoucning their prize support month over month, and ensuring that it is consistent and the same for each venue.

People who have the cards don't know when they're coming out either.

Antigoth said:

Cards Given out at Gencon aren't legal until they're regularly distributed in the prize support.

FFG has now been formally annoucning their prize support month over month, and ensuring that it is consistent and the same for each venue.

People who have the cards don't know when they're coming out either.

I thought Hata overruled that when asked by a player directly and said they were legal on Sept. 1st, 2009. I don't mind FFG announcing month-per-month when they will release promos, but in the case of promos that have been spoiled, it'd be fun to know when they will be legal so we can at least expect (or in our case, not because I got lazy and registered the November tournaments a day late) a ballpark area.

Remember the first Zhao Daiyu and how many questions about her people got? Yeah. I'd like for FFG to try and avoid that if they can. I understand they might not have a time-table for promos, but in the case of Gen Con it'd be information that would maybe stem off the burn of not being able to attend. For example, at their Gen Con report (or in the August SotG), mention that you gave out XYZwhatever cards as previews to those who attended, and those XYZwhatever cards will be distributed to the general public in the following prize kits/promotions.

Again, it'd be nice, but I doubt of the feasibility of said process.

Hatman,

Just to clarify - a player thought that they were legal as of Sept 1. Another player contacted Hata, and corrected that. I have just spoken with Hata, and reconfirmed that - those cards are not legal until they are released into the regular prize support.

A request has been put into Steve that with the November state of the game he announce all of the promos that are currently legal for Standard, and then each month that be updated.

Thanks for looking into that. I was wondering I have a few players where wondering about that.

What are the Promos for November. We haven't received our prizes for November?

Antigoth said:

Hatman,

Just to clarify - a player thought that they were legal as of Sept 1. Another player contacted Hata, and corrected that. I have just spoken with Hata, and reconfirmed that - those cards are not legal until they are released into the regular prize support.

Good on that, but it's information that should have been mentioned earlier. You (or anyone else for that matter) shouldn't have to bother anyone at FFG for that kind of information.

Still, this is one of the many things going in the suggestion box. When it's too full I'm gonna have to fire up an e-mail at FFG.

Antigoth said:

Hey there... I'm not for or against this idea. However just to flesh it out more, I have some comments / questions.

  • World players already complain about how little they get for all of the money they shell out in going to this event. By making a kit where a player could get most of what they get from worlds for $2 or whatever, wouldn't this "devalue" the worlds experience even more?
  • The Promos given away at Gencon are previews of future prize support cards. IE Jin from September, or the Fight Life Promos. By making them exclusive to "Worlds Weekend Events" doesn't that further limit access to promos that people are complaining about being hard to get their hands on?
  • If 95% of the world isn't playing UFS on that weekend, is it because 95% of the Scouts are at Gencon? If that's the case, then who is going to run events on worlds weekend?
  • Are there any other games that hold a celebration tournament for all those who cannot attend the worlds tournaments they're holding at Gencon?
  • Player are already complaining about the $20 kit where you get Kiliks. Wouldn't something like this just make players complain more?

Then worlds players arent going for the right reasons. They should be going to play with players they dont get to and Try to win a card in their own image.

Point 2 - I didnt say make them exclusive. Just to give out a small portion of the worlds promos that are given out early

Point 3 - Well, if 95% of the scouts are at worlds then their is a bigger problem cause this would be the only game that the people who run regular tournaments are the only ones that can travel

Point 4 - No but most games this size die out too. That was the motivation to help encourage growth and player experience.

Point 5 - Well this game will never survive on hand outs and hand outs only. If that is what the players demand they also demand to play a new game.

rulemonkey said:

Then worlds players arent going for the right reasons. They should be going to play with players they dont get to and Try to win a card in their own image.

Take a gander at a number of the threads around prize support. People are complaining loudly and voiciferously that what you suggest isn't enough. That being said - I played Highlander for years, where the prize for winning was a sword. Anything less then first place was bubkis. So I totally agree with you here.

rulemonkey said:

Point 2 - I didnt say make them exclusive. Just to give out a small portion of the worlds promos that are given out early

Challenge being - then you're releasing the cards into the prize support early. When they get released into the normal prize support, players complain "We already got these 4 months ago, this is crap." (See when Yi-Shan and other box redemption characters were added to the prize support, and players were in an uproar over "crappy prize support.")

At least at Gencon, it's released to a small group of people as a "reward" for travelling, and coming to the biggest shindig of the year. Making it available to every playgroup everywhere, but telling them "it's not legal for regular play." Will that A) cause players to not attend the event because they won't be able to use the card. B) Cause frustration because they won't be able to use the card?

rulemonkey said:

Point 3 - Well, if 95% of the scouts are at worlds then their is a bigger problem cause this would be the only game that the people who run regular tournaments are the only ones that can travel

To further discussion on this point:

  • You mentioned that 95% of the world doesn't play in events on worlds weekend. I was wondering where you got that number from.
  • Why is it a problem if the people who organize the game for 25 out of 26 weeks of the year, take one week off to go to worlds? I know for me, that for the last three years of running UFS that there's maybe been three weeks off from running UFS events total in that time. (Most of the time around worlds we simply shift dates at my shop so players don't miss stuff.)
  • I'm not getting how "scouts are the only ones who can travel."

I'm just at a loss from where you're getting your data on this one, it's not making a lot of sense to me.

rulemonkey said:


Point 4 - No but most games this size die out too. That was the motivation to help encourage growth and player experience.

Point 5 - Well this game will never survive on hand outs and hand outs only. If that is what the players demand they also demand to play a new game.

Re point 5 - Raw Deal survived on handouts. When it switched to "tournament kits" that had to be paid for on a consistent basis, that was one of the things that killed that game.

Nothing really to say inregards to point 4.

I was using 95% as a round number think about it if the 100 people that show up to worlds are 5% then that would mean 2000 people play this game. Hopefully there are more than 2000 people playing ufs, but i dont know.

the reference to scouts on that week was a response to you asking if scouts are the ones going to worlds

rulemonkey said:

I was using 95% as a round number think about it if the 100 people that show up to worlds are 5% then that would mean 2000 people play this game. Hopefully there are more than 2000 people playing ufs, but i dont know.

the reference to scouts on that week was a response to you asking if scouts are the ones going to worlds

I can safely say not every scout goes to Worlds

rulemonkey said:

I was using 95% as a round number think about it if the 100 people that show up to worlds are 5% then that would mean 2000 people play this game. Hopefully there are more than 2000 people playing ufs, but i dont know.

the reference to scouts on that week was a response to you asking if scouts are the ones going to worlds

Here's some statistics / facts about our local play group.

Currently we have 10 players locally that actively participate in OP on a week to week basis. (Actively meaning those 10 show up once or twice a month)

However we also have a group of about 5 guys who will not show up for OP events or pre-releases. they buy their product, and play amongst themselves.

We also have at least one other group of an indeterminante # that do the same thing. (My retailer sells to them, they buy boxes, but we have no contact info, and they have never appeared at a local OP event.)

In addition to that we have a number of ex-players who in the last 6 months have sold their collections, but will still come and play, borrowing a deck from time to time.

I am the only player out of our entire group who has ever played in UFS worlds. The week that I head off to the worlds, my group voted that they wanted a week off, and we'd have no event, rather then moving our weekly night earlier in the week before I drove off. So I'm not sure how all of that fits into your stats.

Antigoth said:

World players already complain about how little they get for all of the money they shell out in going to this event. By making a kit where a player could get most of what they get from worlds for $2 or whatever, wouldn't this "devalue" the worlds experience even more?
  • The Promos given away at Gencon are previews of future prize support cards. IE Jin from September, or the Fight Life Promos. By making them exclusive to "Worlds Weekend Events" doesn't that further limit access to promos that people are complaining about being hard to get their hands on?
  • If 95% of the world isn't playing UFS on that weekend, is it because 95% of the Scouts are at Gencon? If that's the case, then who is going to run events on worlds weekend?
  • Are there any other games that hold a celebration tournament for all those who cannot attend the worlds tournaments they're holding at Gencon?
  • Player are already complaining about the $20 kit where you get Kiliks. Wouldn't something like this just make players complain more?

Well sir, if prize support was actually good at Worlds, we wouldn't be complaining, and rulemonkey's idea would be ballin.

For your last point, the $20 where you got 8x Kiliks was a joke. If they didn't do that in the first place, then the point is moot.

This idea is good, but the prize support for the ppl attending the worlds event at Gencon have to get better support. FAR better support.

Shaneth said:

For your last point, the $20 where you got 8x Kiliks was a joke. If they didn't do that in the first place, then the point is moot.

I don't mind paying the 20$ to get 8x Kilik because they also send you the promotional material (or at least are supposed to). They're also supposed to compile a list of the different Store Championships and post it (I don't know if that's been done). For 20$, that's actually decent - under our structure, 4 guys forego prize support for a Store Championship kit and it's all paid off.

The biggest problem I have with it is that we'd be paying 20$ to hold a tournament only we're gonna attend.

Shaneth said:

Well sir, if prize support was actually good at Worlds, we wouldn't be complaining, and rulemonkey's idea would be ballin.

For your last point, the $20 where you got 8x Kiliks was a joke. If they didn't do that in the first place, then the point is moot.

This idea is good, but the prize support for the ppl attending the worlds event at Gencon have to get better support. FAR better support.

So just to clarify - Rulesmonkey is complaining that the rest of the world isn't getting what Worlds is getting. He wants a slice of the worlds pie.

He isn't asking for Worlds support to be spiffed up.

What your responses have cited, is that if rulesmonkey gets what he's asking, players will be complaining.

BTW - Based on walking away with full sets of 2 expansions, and a pile promos, the fact that you're saying prize support is poor, and needs to be improved, dude... common. If you want to get paid to go compete in an event, go play Poker. Then again, look at the WSOP. over 8,000 players paying 10,000 a piece to enter, and only the top 649 Walk away with any sort of prize. (649 gets free buyin to the 2010 WSOP, the rest all get cash) That is arguably the most lucrative gaming tournament in history, and only the top 8% get any prize money. Everyone else gets nothing.

For UFS this year, everyone got at least one promo prize pack with new stuff, plus a booster pack. If they stayed in long enough they also received an Art Print, and at least one more promo pack. All of which more then covers their entry fee into the event. In addition to that, the top 9% of the field was rewarded with even more prize support.

If I hadn't made top 8, I would have walked away from the event happy.

Not making it past the Top 8, I had to say... I'm estatic about the prize support I did receive.

Considering the prize support I'd received previously for top cutting Raw Deal and Highlander Worlds tournaments, what I got for top 8 was more then I'd ever gotten outside of Winning a major event. (Even then for Canadian Nationals for Highlander all I ever got was a sword, and qualifying for that years Highlander Worlds.)

Antigoth said:

BTW - Based on walking away with full sets of 2 expansions, and a pile promos, the fact that you're saying prize support is poor, and needs to be improved, dude... common. If you want to get paid to go compete in an event, go play Poker. Then again, look at the WSOP. over 8,000 players paying 10,000 a piece to enter, and only the top 649 Walk away with any sort of prize. (649 gets free buyin to the 2010 WSOP, the rest all get cash) That is arguably the most lucrative gaming tournament in history, and only the top 8% get any prize money. Everyone else gets nothing.

I recall him saying that he's speaking from the perspective of people who didn't win that support - meaning, the people who didn't get top 8-16 (because that year, IIRC, it was top 16). While you're right in that at least those who don't place high get something, if I recall correctly the year Shane won that part of the support, they didn't get much to the point of quasi-ridicule.

At least this year, they got away with a promo preview pack, and if they toughed it out, another one and an art print. In my opinion, that's pretty good, but it depends on what were the promos given out. I wasn't there, so I can't really say. Then again anything that isn't giving out Kairi's at a UFS event I will find pretty **** good ;)

Back to the topic at hand though, the more I think about it, the more rulemonkey's idea wouldn't work. It would be fine and dandy for those who don't go to Worlds, but considering that few people will place high enough to make the trip "worthwhile" (in terms of prizes and not in terms of enjoyment or otherwise), it'd simply dilute the desire to go.

However, if you want to keep the spirit and share it with others who can't go, have the company release official spoilers for the preview promos at the event. Right now, we have to rely on the community to find out what happened and what was given out - it works in the sense that the information gets spread. However, as awesome as it is, it creates confusion and that's the last thing we need at the moment. So, utilization of the website being optimal and being able to update from Gen Con with an already prepared spoiler would be necessary, but I think it'd definitely be a good move and motivate other people to go to next year's Worlds.

Homme Chapeau said:

At least this year, they got away with a promo preview pack, and if they toughed it out, another one and an art print. In my opinion, that's pretty good, but it depends on what were the promos given out. I wasn't there, so I can't really say. Then again anything that isn't giving out Kairi's at a UFS event I will find pretty **** good ;)

Keep in mind - Shane is complaining about the prize support that Team Tapout walked away with this year.

Antigoth said:

Keep in mind - Shane is complaining about the prize support that Team Tapout walked away with this year.

I didn't follow Worlds much this year, so I wouldn't know.

Honestly, FFG's job is to hype up the event so that more people are interested in going and (hopefully) participating and purchasing product at the event. Promotional material helps, but for some people, it's really not worth the amount of money they would need to spend. For those people, no amount of promotional material will make them sway their mind (although with the rep it has at the moment, I can see why somewhat... although this year in terms of Worlds, looked good). So you need to look at alternatives to make some of those that are more on the fence to go.

Hence my idea of FFG using the UFS minisite a bit more. I find it's incredibly underutilized.