How does the space combat feel?

By Tetrasa, in Rogue Trader

I'm in a rogue trader game currently and we have yet to engage in ship to ship combat.

I was just wondering how fluid does the space combat feel, not everyone has a choice in where to move and the choices in what to do so does it run much faster then normal combat would?

Have you noticed any players/classes having problems getting into? Or to phrase it another way have they any trouble finding enough stuff to do to entertain them self during the combat?

Even in a large group there's enough to do. Its often a group thing- initiative is done on a ship by ship basis so the group deals with stuff together. Its pretty fluid and quite dramatic.

It's not much worse than normal combat. Everyone has a roll to make plus their are the NPC rolls. There tends to be a lot more planning and talking during the players tun as they figure out where to move, and who rolls what. What you need to avoid is one player running the ship and the rest just making rolls.

Dalnor Surloc said:

It's not much worse than normal combat. Everyone has a roll to make plus their are the NPC rolls. There tends to be a lot more planning and talking during the players tun as they figure out where to move, and who rolls what. What you need to avoid is one player running the ship and the rest just making rolls.

There's not much to add to this. All players can participate more or less equally if they want, but some planning and teamwork is required.

Personally I think the ship combat system is great, and allows for very good party-interaction and character-involvement. It is an integral part of the Rogue Trader theme, and therefore had to be designed to slot in as part of the game.

from having run a few ship combats, here's what I recomend

Make sure all the players know what all the extended actions and manuver actions are BEFORE the ship combat starts.

Make sure someone has the scrutiny skill (lots of extended actions require this skill).

If your the GM, be fairly quick with the enemy ships turns.

if you don't have minis, have a sheet of graph paper to handle ship location.

Also, second the "don't let one guy make all the decisions" comment.

That's about it. Ship combats pretty fun, extended actions help keep everyone engaged.

One way I might suggest doing it is the way the old FASA Star Trek RPG handled space combat. The captain is in charge of making all the decisions in combat, however he doesn't give the exacts or specifics, it is the duty of the other players to take his intent and put it into action.

So for example, in one turn the Captain might say "Shoot past them and then turn to port and take us across their course, I want to rake their stern with everything we've got!"

So now the PC manning the helm must now decide how to pull this off, judging the enemy's course and then maneuvering the ship into position as close to the enemy as he can get. The Explorator might end up assisting with this via a "Flank Speed" test.

Meanwhile the Seneschal, noting the captain's desire for heavy firepower, might put his skills to use at the auger controls, achieving a good firing solution via a "Lock on Target" roll. The ship's Missionary also boosts the weapons by making a "put your backs into it!" roll. The Void Master-Gunner puts these bonuses to good use by firing the ship's weapons at the enemy, deciding to fire each weapon separately (instead of as a single salvo) to maximize damage potential.

Finally, because the captain wanted "everything we got!" the Arch-militant might lead a hit-and-run raid on the enemy, or he might decide the enemy is likely to do the same and uses his action to "Prepare to Repel Boarders!".

Basically the captain says what he wants in general terms, and the other PC crewmembers make it happen, with NPC Actions filling the blanks where needed. Obviously the other PCs have some say, they can suggest options to the captain or warn him against unwise plans. It probably isn't the best system, and probably wouldn't work with some groups, but it has potential.

Making sure all the players know the options is a good idea.

I made up a quick reference sheet of ship actions and extended actions and gave each player a copy.

Savage said:

Making sure all the players know the options is a good idea.

I made up a quick reference sheet of ship actions and extended actions and gave each player a copy.

Yeah it can be a bit confusing with all the ship actions. The trick that I've found works best is for everyone to read up on the actions that their characters are most likely to do during combat. For instance, the one playing the Void Master might want to read up on all the Manouevring actions, The Explorator might want to read up on how his tinkering like "Aid The Machine Spirit" can help out etc. etc.

If everyone stick to what their characters are good at, ship combat can be pretty smooth and fast paced, and everyone will pretty much know what they're doing.

I find it strange that the Explorator can never learn Scrutiny, and thus will forever be crap at using the ship's scanners and auger arrays... even if he has similar devices installed in his head.

I find it even more odd that at lower levels only the Void-Master can learn Pilot (Spacecraft) and Scrutiny. This means that there are two important actions- Helm and Sensors- which only one class can use effectively. This means either multiple Void-Masters in the same party, or not being able to manoevre and scan in the same round.

I'm probably going to be handing out some Elite advances early on to counter this.

The Space Combat system is very good, but it has quirks like this that just cry out for house ruling.

nikink said:

I find it strange that the Explorator can never learn Scrutiny, and thus will forever be crap at using the ship's scanners and auger arrays... even if he has similar devices installed in his head.

That is pretty odd. Im thinking of house ruling it to cater a bit more to explorators. Basically if you have an MIU implant you can use your raw Perception when using scanners and auger arrays rather than having to use scrutiny. Mainly because if you use an MIU you're basically hooked up to the machine itself, like you would be with a similar device installed in your head.

Tantavalist said:

I find it even more odd that at lower levels only the Void-Master can learn Pilot (Spacecraft) and Scrutiny. This means that there are two important actions- Helm and Sensors- which only one class can use effectively. This means either multiple Void-Masters in the same party, or not being able to manoevre and scan in the same round.

I'm probably going to be handing out some Elite advances early on to counter this.

The Space Combat system is very good, but it has quirks like this that just cry out for house ruling.

Although late for your group it is worth mentioning the crime lifepath allows you to pick a skill. I will recomend to party memebers that the ship skills are all important.

Of note are

Pilot( spaceships) needed for hit and runs... Arch Militant may want this if they are not directing fire

Scrutiny

Because not many classes don't get them.

Tech use

Command

are also very useful.

I think the thing to make sure of is that all the players have something they can do.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I think I'll print out the action choices ahead of the game tomorrow. It seems like a good idea.

I'm not the GM but our game has a lot of new players so I'm trying to assist in making sure they all feel involved, I think we will be fighting on the ship tomorrow as we are just about to set sail, but then again our gm may be avoiding it if he hasn't finished familiarizing himself with the rules yet.

Just from looking at the rules, Navigators seem like the worst Career for Space Combat. They're very good at the Put Your Backs Into It Action!, mediocre at shooting (though it is possible that a Navigator could start with the highest or close to the highest Ballistic Skill in the party, so it's not unreasonable for a Navigator to be the ship's gunner), and basically lousy at everything else. They'd be really good tactical officers, if they had Scrutiny before Rank 6...

For reference, they get:

Pilot (Space Craft) at Rank 6

Scrutiny at Rank 6

Command at Rank 4 (will tend not to be good at it)

Deceive at Rank 2 (but frequently will be really bad at it)

The Air of Authority Talent at Rank 5

They never get Medicae, Tech Use or Blather (which is admittedly redundant with Deceive).

Katsue said:

Just from looking at the rules, Navigators seem like the worst Career for Space Combat.

Their powers sort of make up for it. The Foreshadowing and Tides of Time and Space powers make them fairly decent gunners, and the Tracks in the Stars and Void Watcher powers allow them to serve as a sort of psychic sensor post.

Tantavalist said:

I find it even more odd that at lower levels only the Void-Master can learn Pilot (Spacecraft) and Scrutiny. This means that there are two important actions- Helm and Sensors- which only one class can use effectively. This means either multiple Void-Masters in the same party, or not being able to manoevre and scan in the same round.

What about using the crew skill level for some tests ?

It's not like the PCs will be the only people on the bridge.

Exactly.

On the ship in our game, the sensors are controlled by a Servitor crew member who just used the standard crew stat of 30. It would be a human operator, but our Rogue Trader is Paranoid untrusting of strangers "threatening his life or his command"and so doesn't like anything but old friends and controllable machines on the bridge, thus the command staff and an all-servitor bridge crew! :D

nikink said:

I find it strange that the Explorator can never learn Scrutiny, and thus will forever be crap at using the ship's scanners and auger arrays... even if he has similar devices installed in his head.

That's what elite advances are for. Train with the Void-master for a trip or three and most GMs will let you burn XP for it. Heck, I'd let people take skills they can get before their advance scheme allows it if they're willing to spend the time and effort to learn them early - but they'll pay extra XP for the privilege.