Confused about evasive monsters . . . .

By Glasgow Scotland, in Arkham Horror Second Edition

We encountered the Werewolf last evening. I found myself in the same street location with wolfie -- hoping to pass through toward somewhere else-- and figured I would just have to fight the big guy. However wolfie is an evaside monster, and I failed my evade check. As I understand it, I cannot then fight the Werewolf. Since an evade of a monster in most instances in the game means the player can move on to complete his movement points, I did exactly that, ending my movement several squares away from the Werewolf.

I find this a bit confusing, since the Werewolf would have been a tough adversary, given the weapons and items I had at that time. It almost appears that failing your evade check and moving on is to the player's advantage.

Doesn't this "escape hatch" situation make the monster less scary, and not more scary?

Maybe we are doing something wrong, I don't know.

Glasgow Scotland said:

We encountered the Werewolf last evening. I found myself in the same street location with wolfie hoping to pass through toward somewhere else and figured I would just have to fight the big guy. However wolfie is an evaside monster, and I failed my evade check. As I understand it, I cannot then fight the Werewolf. Since an evade of a monster in most instances in the game means the player can move on to complete his movement points, I did exactly that, ending my movement several squares away from the Werewolf.

I find this a bit confusing, since the Werewolf would have been a tough adversary, given the weapons and items I had at that time. It almost appears that failing your evade check and moving on is to the player's advantage.

Doesn't this "escape hatch" situation make the monster less scary, and not more scary?

Maybe we are doing something wrong, I don't know.

Elusive monsters only need to be rolled against if you want to fight them. Otherwise, you can ignore them.

Werewolf, however, has the ability of lurking in the shadows, then popping out and ripping a big hunk out of you. It's worth taking him down to save you grief later.

The 'elusive' thing is actually rather nasty. It puts monsters on the board that you have to chase to remove. And they can keep the monsters on the board close to the monster limit for a longer time.

Nod. If you didn't want to fight the werewolf, you shouldn't have rolled an Evade check in the first place- just keep on moving.

Unfortunately, the text "Evasive" could really do with being on the *front* of the monster token, since that's when you need to remember it, but there you go.

YellowPebble said:

Unfortunately, the text "Evasive" could really do with being on the *front* of the monster token, since that's when you need to remember it, but there you go.

You already get a green Awareness modifier, you want text as well gran_risa.gif ?

What I've been wondering about regarding the werewolf: Do you take any damage when you stay in the same location as the werewolf?

If I'm interpreting the text correctly you only take damage when the werewolf moves into your space but not if it already is in the same location.

jhaelen said:

If I'm interpreting the text correctly you only take damage when the werewolf moves into your space but not if it already is in the same location.

It does only damage the neighbourhoods it moves into - not the one it moves out of. That's what it says on the back of the chit and that's how my group plays it.

It does create an odd effect: if you're worried about being hit by the werewolf, the only safe space is... right where the werewolf is. But it does seem reasonably that there is a safe spot. It's a very very dangerous monster anyway.

Glasgow Scotland said:

We encountered the Werewolf last evening. I found myself in the same street location with wolfie hoping to pass through toward somewhere else and figured I would just have to fight the big guy. However wolfie is an evaside monster, and I failed my evade check. As I understand it, I cannot then fight the Werewolf. Since an evade of a monster in most instances in the game means the player can move on to complete his movement points, I did exactly that, ending my movement several squares away from the Werewolf.

I find this a bit confusing, since the Werewolf would have been a tough adversary, given the weapons and items I had at that time. It almost appears that failing your evade check and moving on is to the player's advantage.

Doesn't this "escape hatch" situation make the monster less scary, and not more scary?

Maybe we are doing something wrong, I don't know.

If you actually wanted to fight the Werewolf, you'd have to take the evade test, as you did, but if you failed then your turn ended. See page8 of Kingsport rules.

As the others pointed out, if you just wanted to pass him by, you just do, but remaining in the streets can be dangerous.

Also its not the neighborhood that's dangerous but only if the Werewolf actually enters your space("area"), so you wouldn't want to remain in the streets next to the Werewolf. At least I've always interpreted area to mean space, not neighborhood.

Dam said:

YellowPebble said:

Unfortunately, the text "Evasive" could really do with being on the *front* of the monster token, since that's when you need to remember it, but there you go.

You already get a green Awareness modifier, you want text as well gran_risa.gif ?

Yes I do, for people who are colorblind. I wish more game companies were conscious about that sort of thing.

awp832 said:

Yes I do, for people who are colorblind. I wish more game companies were conscious about that sort of thing.

What about memory? Can't people recall what a monster does what, even without looking at them?

Dam said:

awp832 said:

Yes I do, for people who are colorblind. I wish more game companies were conscious about that sort of thing.

What about memory? Can't people recall what a monster does what, even without looking at them?

No, not every person has an ironclad semantics memory.

The only elusive monsters are the Serpent People and the Werewolf. If you're using Nyar, then the Shadowy Figure is elusive too. If you're using Tulzscha, Cultists are elusive.

it's not just that. Stable locations vs. unstable locations, for example, are marked only by the difference between red and green. Not to mention OW encounter cards. Overall, Arkham isn't terrible in that respect, it could be better, but it could be worse too.

But, take a game like Battlestar Galactica where knowing what color your cards are is critical for passing/failing checks. If you've played Ticket to Ride (days of wonder) it's just terrible, red routes and green routes, red train cars and green train cars, etc, are indistinguishable. One of my gamer friends is colorblind, and it's kind of frusterating not only for him but for everyone else to make sure he's not unfairly disadvantaged. It's so stupid too becasue it would be so easy for a gaming company to simply not include those two colors in tandem, or if they did than to mark them with a word or a symbol or something.

Indeed, both my brother and my brother-in-law are colorblind. Playing Ticket to Ride with them is a challenge, although they both still enjoy it. That game did think to give the different colors different symbols on the board and cards, but they're small and hard to distinguish.

awp832 said:

If you've played Ticket to Ride (days of wonder) it's just terrible, red routes and green routes, red train cars and green train cars, etc, are indistinguishable.

Of course, that will never happen. Me playing KH might someday happen, but train game? Euro games give me the hives just thinking about them (at least TtR's designer is listed as a prominent Euro designer on BGG).

Dam said:

awp832 said:

If you've played Ticket to Ride (days of wonder) it's just terrible, red routes and green routes, red train cars and green train cars, etc, are indistinguishable.

Of course, that will never happen. Me playing KH might someday happen, but train game? Euro games give me the hives just thinking about them (at least TtR's designer is listed as a prominent Euro designer on BGG).

Oh my Hell. Did I just hear what I thought I heard? My chin fell off from shock!

Dam said:

awp832 said:

If you've played Ticket to Ride (days of wonder) it's just terrible, red routes and green routes, red train cars and green train cars, etc, are indistinguishable.

Of course, that will never happen. Me playing KH might someday happen, but train game? Euro games give me the hives just thinking about them (at least TtR's designer is listed as a prominent Euro designer on BGG).

There are quite a few good train games out there. I've played Ticket to Ride, and it was okay, I much prefer the Empire Builder series of train games. You should give one of them a try Dam!

johnwatersfan said:

There are quite a few good train games out there. I've played Ticket to Ride, and it was okay, I much prefer the Empire Builder series of train games. You should give one of them a try Dam!

If it's not a co-op, it better have direct conflict between players, none of that indirect Euro scheisse that seems prevalent in them (from what I hear). Many of their ilk get labelled multiplayer solitaire because of the lack of direct interaction/conflict.

Avi_dreader said:

Oh my Hell. Did I just hear what I thought I heard? My chin fell off from shock!

You heard correctly. it was inevitable, I expected it. He had backed himself into a frothing corner from which he could not escape - only way to ever get to play Kingsport then without it looking like a big climbown was to insert a get-out. That was it. Now he can play KH, and say "I said I might one day" gran_risa.gif

Aaah, yeah I suppose Empire Builder only had direct conflict in that you can only have a certain number of players building into some cities. So your only option is to ride someone else's rails and pay them if you need to get there.

Well, I guess all games aren't for everyone! ;-)

dj2.0 said:

Avi_dreader said:

Oh my Hell. Did I just hear what I thought I heard? My chin fell off from shock!

You heard correctly. it was inevitable, I expected it. He had backed himself into a frothing corner from which he could not escape - only way to ever get to play Kingsport then without it looking like a big climbown was to a get-out. That was it. Now he can play KH, and say "I said I might one day" gran_risa.gif

I don't know if I want to live in a world where Dam is sane ::goes off to buy gun::

MAD, adj.
Affected with a high degree of intellectual independence; not conforming to standards of thought, speech and action derived by the conformants from study of themselves; at odds with the majority; in short, unusual. It is noteworthy that persons are pronounced mad by officials destitute of evidence that they themselves are sane. For illustration, this present (and illustrious) lexicographer is no firmer in the faith of his own sanity than is any inmate of any madhouse in the land; yet for aught he knows to the contrary, instead of the lofty occupation that seems to him to be engaging his powers he may really be beating his hands against the window bars of an asylum and declaring himself Noah Webster, to the innocent delight of many thoughtless spectators.

- The Devils Dictionary

dj2.0 said:

MAD, adj.
Affected with a high degree of intellectual independence; not conforming to standards of thought, speech and action derived by the conformants from study of themselves; at odds with the majority; in short, unusual. It is noteworthy that persons are pronounced mad by officials destitute of evidence that they themselves are sane. For illustration, this present (and illustrious) lexicographer is no firmer in the faith of his own sanity than is any inmate of any madhouse in the land; yet for aught he knows to the contrary, instead of the lofty occupation that seems to him to be engaging his powers he may really be beating his hands against the window bars of an asylum and declaring himself Noah Webster, to the innocent delight of many thoughtless spectators.

- The Devils Dictionary

And so Bierce spent his last years, convinced he was Daniel Webster after witnessing the Spanish version of the mysterious play, The King in Yellow.

This thread has wandered off track, down an abandoned mine, and into the Abyss.

Regarding evasive monsters and red/green awareness modifiers, I have to confess that, in spite of not being colourblind in the slightest, I had never noticed the green modifiers. Ahem.

Regarding Ticket to Ride, I personally don't like it all: I find it incredibly boring and unthematic, but I do like other euros- Agricola is perhaps tied for my favourite game with Arkham Horror.

I rather like Ticket to Ride as a game; that is, I like its simple mechanics as they create a game. It's an easy game I could bring to family holidays and not upset Those Who Generally Do Not Dig Games.

That said...I have great hatred for the SILENCE it is played under. You can't TALK about the game AT ALL while playing. The best you can manage is stupid obvious comments--"Not enough red." "Come on, locomotive!"--and any unrelated conversations are just irritating to anyone trying to concentrate on a strategy. Ticket to Ride makes me understand "Multiplayer Solitaire".

YellowPebble said:

I do like other euros- Agricola is perhaps tied for my favourite game

Another game I won't touch with a 100-foot pole. Theme is the #1 thing I'm interested in a game, especially when looking to get a new one. Farming? Seriously?

Crap, no puke emoticon. Guess bostezo.gif will have to do.

Dam said:

YellowPebble said:

I do like other euros- Agricola is perhaps tied for my favourite game

Another game I won't touch with a 100-foot pole. Theme is the #1 thing I'm interested in a game, especially when looking to get a new one. Farming? Seriously?

Crap, no puke emoticon. Guess bostezo.gif will have to do.

If for no other reason, Dam, you might like Agricola because it's such a struggle. You have to keep your little bastards fed each harvest, and that's a huge challenge sometimes. I guess you aren't a Eurogamer, but you might want to give this game a try, at least once.

The 'Gric expansion is supposed to be available this month, and I CAN'T WAIT to have to heat my home as well as feed my family! Hardship makes for a fun fun game. Horse stew, anyone?